Project update

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tom.m

Tom
Senior User
Progress on my black walnut slab sliding door project is indeed moving forward. Scott Smith put my slabs in his kiln for a while and brought the moisture content down to about 6%. Not having the space, equipment or expertise to do much from there, I took my wood to a commercial company in Raleigh. Once it is planed, jointed, sanded and glued, my wife and I plan to finish and install the door, which will end up somewhere in the 44" X 8' range. My question deals with what finish to use. Danish Oil, Waterlox and poly have all been suggested. Exploring the possibilities, I'm leaning to Deft Danish Oil for black walnut, but so far I have not found a source that carries it locally, or on the internet. Probably just poor research on my part. Any suggestions as to where I can find some? Anyone used that before? Pleased with the results? Thanks much.
 

redknife

Chris
Corporate Member
Tom, I can't source deftoil for you, but a similar product is Tried and True Varnish oil which is available at Klingspor or online. I've used that on our own interior wood doors. It contains polymerized linseed oil and a resin (varnish). Great working characteristics. Beautiful when developed with a few coats. You can recoat in the future if necessary although the varnish provides lasting protection beyond a simple oil. You must follow the directions for thin coats and aggressive wipe off. I've found it best to used 4-0 steel wool in between coats.
Waterlox and walnut is a wonderful combination. Waterlox has more film building characteristics compared to T&T or Danish oil/Deftoil. Waterlox can also be recoated later without stripping.
Although Waterlox and T&T varnish oil take about a month to fully cure, the Waterlox has more odor for a few weeks. The T&T has a pleasant odor.
Should you choose Waterlox, this YouTube series of videos may be very helpful: [video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HqiLQvJmvxQ[/video]. The video series describes application of Waterlox on a custom door. I've found the tips in the video to be very helpful in getting the application right the first time.
I would lean toward the wiping varnish products mentioned rather than poly for this application, personally. If using poly, you'd want to consider an oil first to enhance the wood character (opinion).
Make an effort to use a sample piece of walnut to try your finish choice before committing so that you have no unpleasant surprises. If you consider the cost and time involved to date, a sample and perhaps some extra finish is a small price to pay to get it the way you want.
Good luck.
 

tom.m

Tom
Senior User
Tom, I can't source deftoil for you, but a similar product is Tried and True Varnish oil which is available at Klingspor or online. I've used that on our own interior wood doors. It contains polymerized linseed oil and a resin (varnish). Great working characteristics. Beautiful when developed with a few coats. You can recoat in the future if necessary although the varnish provides lasting protection beyond a simple oil. You must follow the directions for thin coats and aggressive wipe off. I've found it best to used 4-0 steel wool in between coats. Good luck.
Thanks, Chris. T&T Varnish Oil sounds like an interesting alternative. The wood shop where my slabs are now located will allow us to use their space to finish the door, but I fear they might boot us out if the process takes too long. Will just need to ask. The Deft Danish Oil product directions say to apply a coat, let it dry for 30 minutes, reapply, and let dry for 24 hours. Flip the door, and the process takes 2 days. T&T says to make application, let it dry for an hour, and then reapply. Let dry for 24 hours and then reapply and let dry for another 24 hours. Four coats will take 3 days if I'm counting correctly, so flipping the door will mean 6 days to finish. Looks like a pretty good product, and certainly easier to find than the Deft. Am I correct in my calculations? We're willing to put in the work; I'm just not sure we can occupy their space for that long. We'll see. Your input and thoughts are much appreciated. Thanks.
 

redknife

Chris
Corporate Member


Thanks, Chris. T&T Varnish Oil sounds like an interesting alternative. The wood shop where my slabs are now located will allow us to use their space to finish the door, but I fear they might boot us out if the process takes too long. Will just need to ask. The Deft Danish Oil product directions say to apply a coat, let it dry for 30 minutes, reapply, and let dry for 24 hours. Flip the door, and the process takes 2 days. T&T says to make application, let it dry for an hour, and then reapply. Let dry for 24 hours and then reapply and let dry for another 24 hours. Four coats will take 3 days if I'm counting correctly, so flipping the door will mean 6 days to finish. Looks like a pretty good product, and certainly easier to find than the Deft. Am I correct in my calculations? We're willing to put in the work; I'm just not sure we can occupy their space for that long. We'll see. Your input and thoughts are much appreciated. Thanks.
I haven't used Deft Danish oil but those are the directions. You are correct on the T&T. I'd figure on 3-4 coats and sometimes I wait 2 days between coats if it doesn't feel dry enough. Residual can also be knocked down with steel wool. Waterlox also has a longer application schedule. That doesn't fit well with your current plans. The short application scheme may be better for you. The short application products I've used are poly and spray finishes. Another option is to finish the door in place, but having done that I much prefer to finish flat and flip. Maybe someone will chime in with a source for Deft Danish oil and experience. There are a lot of similar products and diy mixtures that combine a urethane/varnish with oil. Although there are a million ways to skin this cat, fortunately you only need one. How about doing the finish at home regardless of product? Much more control, no rush.
 

Jeff

New User
Jeff
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/finishing/oil-finishes-their-history-and-use

I've also used a pure tung oil diluted with "Citrus" solvent (d-limonene from orange peels)

https://www.realmilkpaint.com/category/oils/

https://www.realmilkpaint.com/help/tutorials/finishing-countertops-butcher-blocks/

Most oil finishes, wiping varnishes, etc have a mineral spirits co-solvent as a diluent so that refinery like odor can persist from days to weeks which can be a downside to finishing at home in the home.

Your door isn't going to be subjected to a lot of abuse so how about using 100% dewaxed shellac in denatured alcohol? Dewaxed shellac has excellent durability and it's easily repaired/touched up if necessary. Applying shellac has its own learning curve but it dries quickly and several coats can be done in 1 day.

http://www.shellacfinishes.com/introduction/
 

tom.m

Tom
Senior User
Tom, I've had good finishes with both Deft and Watco danish oils, sanding with fine sandpaper between coats is the best trick.

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/rub_to_create_a_great_finish
Thanks, Woody. Still trying to figure out which finish to use. Deft Danish fits the timeframe, but don't want to use something strictly because it's quick. Also, still can't identify a source for the Deftoil. Maybe they just don't stock it in the US anymore. Still looking. Thanks.
 

tom.m

Tom
Senior User
How about doing the finish at home regardless of product? Much more control, no rush.
Hey Chris:
I think that is great advice. We have a very small shop, 10' X 28', that is filled with "stuff". However, it would definitely be better to sacrifice the shop space for a week to get a great finish instead of settling for the quickest solution. Stay tuned, and thanks for the advice.
 

tom.m

Tom
Senior User
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/finishing/oil-finishes-their-history-and-use

I've also used a pure tung oil diluted with "Citrus" solvent (d-limonene from orange peels)

https://www.realmilkpaint.com/category/oils/

https://www.realmilkpaint.com/help/tutorials/finishing-countertops-butcher-blocks/

Most oil finishes, wiping varnishes, etc have a mineral spirits co-solvent as a diluent so that refinery like odor can persist from days to weeks which can be a downside to finishing at home in the home.
Hey Jeff:
Thanks for the suggestions. Looking at taking over my own shop for a week to finish the door. That way I won't use a particular product just because it's quick. There are plenty of options out there; just need to figure out the best one, and soon.
 

Jeff

New User
Jeff
Tom,

I've also searched and searched for your Deftoil, aka "Deft Deftoil" etc. and have come up empty handed as well. Several suppliers simply said "this item is no longer available" which could mean that PPG is no longer making it. I did find an MSDS dated 9/2016. Take a look at Section 3 to see what you could get for your $, about 10-20% boiled linseed oil, asphalt, and 50-75% solvents which evaporate. :eek:

http://msdsdigital.com/deft-deftoil-light-walnut-dft081-msds-1
 

tom.m

Tom
Senior User
Tom,

I've also searched and searched for your Deftoil, aka "Deft Deftoil" etc. and have come up empty handed as well. Several suppliers simply said "this item is no longer available" which could mean that PPG is no longer making it. I did find an MSDS dated 9/2016. Take a look at Section 3 to see what you could get for your $, about 10-20% boiled linseed oil, asphalt, and 50-75% solvents which evaporate. :eek:/QUOTE]

Thanks, Jeff for your efforts to track this stuff down. I'm leaning toward Watco Danish Oil or possibly Tried and True Varnish Oil. I think both are locally available. I plan to spend part of the weekend trying to decide and track some down. Again, thanks for looking.
 
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