production veneering

[cmartinson]

I recently did some remodeling for an architect and as you may or may not know furniture design is a required class in this field. So, long story short, he has designs that he wants to produce and sell. We are discussing a partnership. Anyways, my question is, does anyone know anything about using exotic veneers on a production scale? ie methodology and costs involved.

 

[D L Ames]

Chad, I don't have any experience in using veneer on a large scale but SteveD completed a very nice project recently so you might want to see what he can tell you. Here is a link to the project in Steve's photo album.

D L

 

[cmartinson]

Before you invest much time or money you need to take a hard look at the present market. There is almost no production furniture made in America today. Not totally discouraging but just be careful.

Thanks for the heads up. This also has been weighing on me. Right now I am basically trying to determine how much a one man shop can produce of single piece plywood tabletops with an exotic veneer (My plans are for a screw on leg) without a cnc router. Kind of something like one would expect to find in Ikea.

 

[Steve D]

Chad,

Mike brings up an excellent point about production furniture. IMHO, it would be better to look at a custom approach to produce unique items. Link up with a few high end interior designers and you will see much better margins for your work. Veneering equipment on a production scale would be quite costly; however, you could build or buy vacuum veneering equipment to suit custom needs for between $500-1000.

 

[cmartinson]

Hey, excellent idea. That may actually be feasible. I'll have to bring this up with my architect/furniture designer. So what you're saying is my ROI is much greater with custom work?

 

[Steve D]

Yes, in general the ROI is much better with custom work but you need to be careful with what you choose to offer. Ideally you want to focus on things that can be made without too many hours of work. Differentiate yourself with exotic veneers, custom finishes, unusual shapes, etc. Avoid items that are terribly complex. As an example, I can produce custom cabinets and sell them for a couple of thousand dollars, have a few hundred dollars in materials and maybe 20 hours of labor. Everyone can appreciate custom cabinetry and the cost can easily be justified in their budgets.

Furniture on the other hand can get very complex in terms of joinery, hand shaping, etc. You can end up with over a hundred hours in labor and a hard time getting people to appreciate why the piece costs so much. An example of this would be the rocking chairs that Woodguy is currently teaching several of us to make. You have about $500 in materials and well over 100 hours to produce a chair. A cheap shop should use $20 / hr as their labor rate giving the chair a cost of $2500. If you are shooting for a 40% margin, that means the chair should sell for over $6,000. There aren't that many people that can appreciate the beauty of the chair, let alone justify the cost. You could sell them for less, but would you really want to put over 100 hours into a piece and only earn $10 an hour?:eusa_thin

 

[cmartinson]

Makes sense. Our plan is to make small items like end tables with a screw on leg. We plan to justify the price by using exotic veneers. I'm hoping to be able to produce enough to make some decent money off of $75 to 100 dollars a table. His family is in the furniture marketing business so we have a finger in the market so to speak. So really my objective is to find a way to produce as many as possible without having to invest in 10's of thousands of dollars in equipment. I'm still shopping for a leg to use but the veneer is in the bag. The design is a real simple one. I can easily cut 30 to 40 an hour with a template and a router. The difficult part is the veneer work. How many could a guy put in a vacuume press at a time? Could I glue up 40 pieces in a day?

 

[Steve D]

In order to do anything at that level of production you are going to need to deal with a hot press and glues that cure rapidly wth heat. It's hard to get that level of production with vacuum veneering without setting up several work stations large enough to handle multiple pieces. Stacking isn't a really good option because of the glue squeeze out. I would do frame presses instead of bags to facilititate more rapid change over. There is a forum on http://www.cabinetmakeronline.com/ and several pros that deal with veneer tend to be active. They would be better suited to answering any questions relating to hot presses, etc.

 

[dustcollector]

Quote: "Kind of something like one would expect to find in Ikea."

I think that sums up the problem. I doubt you could make money selling anything similiar to mass produced stuff at the prices Ikea charges.

Unique, when well done, is good. Of course, it's not easy to come up with those items or we'd all be doing it and getting rich :mrgreen: .

Let us know what sort of design you decide on.


gary :happy8:

 

[Mountaincraft]

Anything I could have said or possibly know was said better by these people. I feel like a beginning journeyman. One thing, if it isn't a commissioned piece, 8 year old chinese kids can do it much cheaper. How does one introduce labor reform and collective bargaining to a communist country that is supposed to be created for and by workers rights? I'm wearing footprints in my soapbox.

custom, custom, custom:eusa_booh

 

[cmartinson]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the input. I definetly see your point on cheap forein labor. So, custom is the way to go. Now I just need to refine my skills to the point where I can build one of a kinds quick enough to make some money:eusa_thin