Possible Workshop layout - Your thoughts & input

[Warped Woodwerks]

Hello all,

I have a house with an attached 3 car garage but, for now, I am limited to using only 1 of the spaces (other side has 2 vehicles). My shop is spaced at 13' wide x 19' long. In the attached picture, each large square is 1' and each smaller square is 3".

I have noted in the attached picture, as best as I can, what items are what (stairs\tools\electrical\etc.).

Currently, I own a 3hp table saw, some handheld routers, track saw with all variety of lengths (up to 108"?), benchtop planer, 12" miter saw, & the usual (small hand held tools).

Since the price of wood is more than the price of gold, I figured, why not just concentrate on shop design\layout\lights\partition install\DC install, before selling a kidney...?

Above is (obviously) a layout of my garage. The subpanel and 110\220 outlets are there but, everything "assigned" to the outlets (with a "?") are not hard set.

Also, all of the objects labeled with a "?" do not exist (yet?). If I were to have these tools, they would be on mobile bases, so I could "easily" move them around. Not sure I'd want to move a "large" jointer around, so if I were to get that (8" floor model), it would most likely stay wherever it finds a "proper" location.

I don't currently have a DC, just a HF motor with Rikon impeller installed (the DC motor has never been used). Last year I was thinking about using the HF motor with a cyclone, filter, etc.. but, after reading and reading some more, I am heavily rethinking that idea. I know it is "spendy" and will take up premium space in my garage but, what do you think about a dedicated (wall/stand - if I go this route, it'll most likely be the stand) 3HP+ DC? From what I can tell, the "2" DC choices, unless anyone else knows of a "better" option, are V-3000 & CV1800 (5HP?? Extreme overkill!? NOT leaning this way).

Forgot to mention... I am not sure what to do with my 12" DeWalt miter saw (DWS779 - I think is the model). I don't think a dedicated spot would be best but, what do you think?

What are your thoughts on my garage layout? Suggestions, recommendations, constructive "criticism" is welcomed, questions, etc.

Thanks! Rory

 

[Raymond]

Is it possible to locate your DC outside of the garage? Is your ducting ceiling mounted or wall mounted? Are you going to make your tools mobile? I work out of a 2-car garage need everything (except for my lathe) mounted on lockable casters.

 

[Warped Woodwerks]

Forgot to mention.

Garage Curtain Partition idea: Garage Curtain for Dust Protection and Heat Retention - Third Stall Woodworking

The above link uses canvas. I was thinking that that wouldn't be the most efficient\best choice, so I was looking into using several PVC shower curtains and somehow sealing off any open areas/gaps with some sort of glue.. heavy duty tape of sorts....??? If anyone has a better suggestion, by all means... let me know. I am not looking to spend a small fortune on this but, I definitely want it to prevent (as best as it can) dust from going over and into the other side of the garage.

Besides a DC... I was also looking Bill Pent'z idea of an air cleaner: Dust Collection Research - Air Cleaner

I like his idea a lot. Originally, I was looking at using some Merv 13 (as 'pre-filter') & then Merv 15 (as secondary filter) I bought off of Amazon, and then building a box, inserting the filters, and then cutting out a hole for a fan.. yadda yadda.. You've all seen these filter boxes before..

Just like the air filter boxes, this would (hopefully) capture any remaining particles of fine dust (I know.. not 100% of it..maybe d@mn well close).

Ideas\thoughts..


Thanks again... Rory

 

[Warped Woodwerks]

Is it possible to locate your DC outside of the garage? Is your ducting ceiling mounted or wall mounted? Are you going to make your tools mobile? I work out of a 2-car garage need everything (except for my lathe) mounted on lockable casters.

Raymond..

1: I can not locate the DC outside of my garage.
2: Nice thing about your ducting question, since the ducting doesn't yet exist, it can be either floor or ceiling mounting.

Forgot to mention (go figure): Ceilings are 10' 6"

3: Pretty much all "heavy/large" tools will be on some sort of mobile base (locking casters).

I appreciate your questions...

Thanks... Rory

 

[Rushton]

Rory, if you can stretch your budget to the Clear Vue CV1800, you will not regret it. It is not overkill. Even in a small shop like yours (very similar to my former basement shop), it is a treat to use and very effective. Some thoughts: Use 6" solid duct all the way to your machines. If you can accomplish it, place the cyclone in a corner and run a main trunk line diagonally, then pull drops on 45-degree branches to your machines. Avoid the 90-degree duct turns shown in your drawing. Allow at least 5' of straight solid duct into the cyclone inlet to allow the airflow to "settle" so it enters the cyclone with the least turbulence possible.

I was glad to see the Bill Pentz designed air filter in your drawing. It is excellent with the Wynn Environmental filter and 750 cfm blower. Put the base on wheels so you can roll it about, and get a 1, 2, 4 hour timer switch to operate it.

 

[Wiley's Woodworks]

Move your drill press up against a wall. You don't need 360* access to it. Consider building a 2nd workbench/surface that is movable and parking it in the vacated drill press space. If you put the band saw up against the garage door, why not put another tool or two up against it as well. Figure out a way to create long length infeed for the jointer. You will be needing it. Since your ceilings are so high, put all your DC system up there, including putting the main DC on a platform so you can store stuff under it. Figure out how to make the shop corner by the sink useful; maybe build a wood storage bin.

 

[ralitaco]

Rory, I am in no way experienced with this, but just a thought...how about swap your workbench and table saw? That way, when you bring in your sheet goods to cut through the garage door, you can just go directly to the table saw to cut it down.

 

[Pop Golden]

Hi Rory, A few years ago I put together a PowerPoint presentation for the Charlotte Woodworkers Club.

A few basic points: 1, The best wat to lay out a shop is to draw your proposed floor plan, then with stiff paper like a file folder draw your machines, work bench etc. I would draw it up at around 1/2 in. = 1 ft. scale that will give you room to work with it.. Now PLAY with it. Take your time this may go a few days. When you think you have what you want walk away for a day or two. Then play some more. There will always be adjustments. Then let it lay for another day or so, and look at it again.
2. Our shop layout is just that our layout. This is your shop design it for you and your work. Also as the layout will settle into what you find comfortable. That's your shop. 3. go to 10 different shops and you'll find 10 different ways to do things, but remember what works for some folks may not work for you. The best DC info I came up with is a little book put out by General. It's about 20 or so pages and it take what is a simple subject and keeps it simple. I know my days long layout idea is drawn out ,but time spent in planning is well spent. Pushing those paper machines around is easer than pushing heavy machines around. There's more to this dust collection, work flow etc. but for now let's wor on the basics.

Pop

 

[Warped Woodwerks]

Instead of replying to everyone above, individually, I am going to try and reply to all of the previous responses with my one post.

Background: Pardon the slop, lack of organization, etc. but, I moved into my house mid-March, 2021. Nothing is really there yet, as far as the garage "shop" goes but, I am (very) slowly getting there.

Rushton\Rush: I am not sure where I could possibly put the CV, due to the way the intake\exhaust are (?). I might be able to make it, so that the intake\exhaust are both up against the one garage wall (near the sink) but, I am not sure. I also do not think I'd like the "louder" volume of it (don't feel like building a room around it, too). If I drill the wall mount into the studs, which is a wall that is an adjacent wall to the entryway of my house (pic 7-7B ), I am not sure if you'll hear a lot of the DC in the house, or hear\feel a good amount of vibration. From my attached garage picture\s, hopefully you'll get a better visual of what I have to work with, as well as potential tool location?

The red wall with lines would be the garage location.

Regarding the CV, I think (with coupon code) it is relatively cheaper vs the Oneida V-3000 (even w/upgraded impeller to 16" & 55 gallon drum. Is a 55 gallon drum warranted?).

Just like your suggestions: For piping, my plan was a 5' run of 6" (nordfab-STYLE (I know.. I know. and NO, I don't have deep pockets like that)) or a "CHEAPER" alternative) along the wall, since I would try to make it simple and not have too many of those spendy wyze\45's... but I am not sure exactly what to do, just yet. Don't really feel like looking at any piping but, what can you do? I would rather not do PVC\Schedule 40, etc. I like the convenience of the nordfab style but... with convenience comes a cost. If I can keep the piping under $1,000, if I do go nordfab style, that would be acceptable. Obviously, I wouldn't argue with under $500, too.

The diagonal run of plumbing, then branching off of that would be OK, I guess? From my pictures & ugly line drawing, would it be silly to run the piping like that, or just do a simple run down the side of the wall and do 2 branches off of that?

Bill Pentz air filter: I didn't think about having a mobile base for that. Good idea!


WILEY'S WOODWORK\Wiley:

Drill Press: My plan wasn't to put that there, for when I use it, just a place to put it when I do not use it.

As your suggestion states, I was thinking about moving it over near the band saw area, whenever I use it. I am just throwing ideas around, for garage shop layout, and taking your suggestions, as well as others, into deep consideration. My child-like line drawing makes my shop look/feel a lot larger, when compared to my pictures. At least, that is how I feel after comparing the 2.

Jointer: From my pictures, I was thinking about just opening the garage door, if I need more space for longer boards. Good/Not good idea?



Sink area: Depending on if I put a DC in that area, I was thinking of throwing my scraps there. Above the sink, putting either a cabinet, or make some sort of French cleat something or other. Again, throwing this around to see what people think, suggest, etc., since I know others have more experience as well as a lot of knowledge, when compared to my experience\knowledge.



ralitaco\JIM:

Table saw & workbench: As you suggested, I had the very same idea, then I looked at the location of my table saw power cord. It wouldn't be long enough to plug in, unless I had the electrician come out and build a longer cord. I was more or less thinking of using my track saw to break down any sheet goods, outside, since I am not a fan of trying to break down those large sheets on the table saw. "Funny" story. I broke down 3-4 sheets of ply... ONCE, on my jobsite table saw... OH MY!!! Also, I didn't have an infeed or outfeed table...



From my pictures, the red lines against the wall would be the adjacent room (if you are in the garage, it would be picture 7/7_B.. and if you are in 7/7_B, it would be 1-6).

The smoker is NOT staying in the garage. I had to replace the PID & hot rod.


I am breaking down the pallets, so those will be off of the wall soon.

Most likely I'll repurpose the small rolling table, with the miter saw on it but, not sure what tool I would use it for. I'd like a permanent miter saw table but, I am not sure where I would have the room for a table like that.

Metal garbage can, near the door into the house, would be moved elsewhere. I would most likely use that for cut offs/scraps.

Dubuque clamps, near the sink, would have a home off of the floor.

Again... I've only been in my house since March 10th, so the garage is a mess and unorganized.

Just looking for suggestions & ideas, so when I am actually spending time in the garage, it will not be wasted.

As always.. input/ideas/suggestions are always welcomed.



Rory

 

[Wiley's Woodworks]

Hey Rory--My thinking on moving the drill press was to remove it from the biggest open space you have. If you "store" it there you will be constantly dodging it as you walk around. If you plan on having it against the garage door when you use it, then just set it up there and leave it.

From your drawing it looks like the jointer bed won't stick out far enough to give a straight shot along the fence and out the door. Maybe just part of a working drawing instead of perfect-to-scale.

If rewiring is going to be necessary, consider skipping over 15 amp circuits and going straight to 20 amp. I find way too often 15 amp rated tools tend to throw circuit breakers when they get bogged down. Also, from the beginning go with LED lights, as many fixtures as you can fit. The improvement in brightness and clarity is almost priceless.

One of the smartest shop mods I did was to install two 50' retractable extension cords in the ceiling. One 15 amp and one 20 amp. Now I can move any machine anywhere (this includes outside), and hook it up in 10 seconds. I now do all my planing and sanding outside. Really reduces the dust.

 

[Warped Woodwerks]

Wiley...

Good point.

Regarding the drawing: I originally put together a miter station, band saw, & drill press but, it was too cluttered over there. I decided to "put away" the miter station idea, for now, and just work on the location of the drill press & band saw instead. Since I have no idea what I am going to do with the miter saw/station, it is probably best that I put the drill press and band saw together (similar locations), until I figure out what to do with the miter saw.

Jointer idea\location: Correct, it is just a loosely put together drawing, so I can move it around until it "lines up" with the garage opening. Not sure how a larger 8" wide (maybe 76+ long) jointer will work in that location but, when time comes... we'll see what I have to work with and go from there.

Circuit size: I have a sub-panel that has a max load of 60A, so I hope I'll be good when time comes to use the DC along with my tool/s. ALL breakers are 20A. When the electrician was installing the panel, I made sure everything was at a minimum of 20A. You are right. It isn't fun when you are using a tool and it blows the breaker. Last house... I was using my miter saw and *BOOM*, there went the breaker. Flipped it and was back to work but, it was still annoying.

LED shop lights: I am looking at these linkable lights... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07T8BCZ3N/

Hyperikon 4 Foot LED Linkable Shop Light, 40W
Frosted cover 5,000K
CRI: 84+ I know I could do better.. but how much is that going to cost?

Ceiling mounting extension cord/s: I never thought about that. I have a bunch of 12/3 25' & 50' extension cords but, the 1 (20A) 50' might be exactly what I am looking for, especially when sanding! Keeping the "shop" dust to a minimum is my ultimate goal. Heck, I could also use that for my track saw cuts.

All important notes & good ideas.

Also, taking Pop Golden/Pop's idea, too.. I will have to continue throwing ideas around for my shop layout. No need to rush, especially if you want that "perfect" layout.

 

[Rushton]

Rory, following up on dust collection... The CV1800 runs about 82dB right next to it, but it's not as loud as your table saw or jointer. I would not bolt it to the studs of a wall shared with house living space. I'd look at mounting it on an exterior wall, if possible. Or, put up a set of independent set of 2x4s studs from ceiling joists to concrete floor to create an independent mounting wall. For ducting, use thin wall sewer and drain pipe (D2729 pipe with SDR35 connectors). You can find them at a landscaping supply or water supply retailer, not your typical plumbing store or big box. As suggested, play around with your machine location, then plan out your dust collection ducts using all 45-degree wyes to the machines. Lots of information from user conversations at the Clear Vue Forum and also here if you search on posts from "McRabbet" and "Alan in Little Washington".

As to a drum, I've always used a 35 gallon fiber drum, not a 55 gallon steel drum.

You camera position in photos 1 and 1-b look like a strong possibility for a cyclone location if this were my garage space.

 

[Warped Woodwerks]

Rory, following up on dust collection... The CV1800 runs about 82dB right next to it, but it's not as loud as your table saw or jointer. I would not bolt it to the studs of a wall shared with house living space. I'd look at mounting it on an exterior wall, if possible. Or, put up a set of independent set of 2x4s studs from ceiling joists to concrete floor to create an independent mounting wall. For ducting, use thin wall sewer and drain pipe (D2729 pipe with SDR35 connectors). You can find them at a landscaping supply or water supply retailer, not your typical plumbing store or big box. As suggested, play around with your machine location, then plan out your dust collection ducts using all 45-degree wyes to the machines. Lots of information from user conversations at the Clear Vue Forum and also here if you search on posts from "McRabbet" and "Alan in Little Washington".

As to a drum, I've always used a 35 gallon fiber drum, not a 55 gallon steel drum.

You camera position in photos 1 and 1-b look like a strong possibility for a cyclone location if this were my garage space.

82 isn't bad. Regardless, I have horrible tinnitus, so whatever the dBs, I'd have to wear my hearing protection. Thanks for the information.

Ideally, I'd like the 5HP and 16" impeller, but not sure I want to deal with the DC assembly process.

Since I really don't want to mount the DC to a wall, that is why I was looking at the Oneida V3000, since they offer the stand. Sure, it is a beast of a stand, but it will only be touching the ground. Unfortunately, I have a tankless, some more chef racks, and some cars where I am standing, in photo 1 & 1B. :'(

I know the Oneida filter is something like 95 sq ft (??), vs the filter on the CV (300+?), but is there really a huge diff. when it comes to overall fine dust collection/performance?

Regardless of the price, who makes it, business practices, etc...etc... in your opinion, why is the CV "far superior" to the Oneida? I haven't made up my mind, yet, so I am looking for something to help me with my decision.


Thank you for your suggestions as well as the suggested forum reading. I will definitely check that out.

I wish this was a lot easier (deciding what DC/tools to get as well as shop layout).


Rory

 

[Rushton]

The Clear Vue has superior fine dust separation due to the tall slender design of the cyclone. The Wynn filters are MERV 15, but the key is the fine dust separation that prevents most dust from ever reaching the filters in the first place.

The build process is straight forward and relatively simple. I'm assembling a Clear Vue CVMAX for our community woodworking shop now; this will be my second. If you've not yet watched it, here's their step-by-step assembly instructions video (about 14 minutes) on YouTube:

Edit: The square footage of the filter is a relative indicator of air flow generated by the two cyclones. The filter must have enough square footage so as not to create any back pressure on the system (choke it), otherwise you won't get the rated airflow at the point of intake at the tool. If Oneida is using only 95 sq ft, I take that as an indication of the much lower CFM generated compared to the Clear Vue's 1400+ CFM.

A further note about the 16" impeller upgrade... For the size of your shop and assuming using only a single tool at a time, the 15" impeller will be more than adequate. The 16" impeller would be total overkill.

 

[Warped Woodwerks]

That's not bad at all. I would just need to take my time.

After taking another look in my garage, I'm just not sure I can put a DC in any other location but the corner next to the sink. :\

I really wish it was a simple choice. If I could marry Oneida' V3000 & CV1800 together, that would be ideal

 

[Rushton]

Well, you could position it as Jay Bates positioned his: next to the garage door. Switch locations with your jointer and use the space next to your sink as outfeed space. Or, given you ceiling height, just mount it high and you'll only have the narrow bottom of the cyclone body and then the dust barrel near sink height.

In any event, whatever you ultimately choose to do, have fun with the shop build project! We don't often get the chance to do what you're doing, so enjoy the planning and the process. Feel free to keep asking questions as your thoughts evolve.

 

[Warped Woodwerks]

Last night I couldn't sleep, so I went into the garage and studied more of the garage.


Just finished reworking the line drawing, so please let me know your thoughts.

Wiley's idea\suggestion, of the ceiling mounted extension cord, had me thinking. I searched online, for a NEMA 6-20 extension cord, and came across the following: https://www.amazon.com/6-20P-6-20R-Generator-Extension-Cords/dp/B07TCNT8ZB/

I would be using that extension cord, or one similar to it, across the floor and not in a ceiling mounted unit.

Instead of placing a DC next to the sink, like in my original line drawing, I was thinking of placing it in the area between the single garage and the 2 car garage. I have 40" of space between the 2 garage door rails, so a DC with floor stand will fit perfectly in this location (imo). The garage door rails are 7' 5" from the ground, too. Putting the DC in this area will open up a lot of space, along the wall, for the jointer and maybe 1-2 more tools (depending on how I ultimately lay things out). Again, the actual locations aren't exact, for the jointer, but hopefully you get the idea. Is this layout more of an ideal/optimal one, with regards to the DC &/or jointer?

Regarding the extension cord: I'm not knowledgeable in electronics, so I am hoping that extension cord would do the trick (will supply enough juice for the DC)... without burning down the house as well as not killing the DC. If anyone can assist, provide knowledgeable information, or has recommendations, I am all ears.

I am 6' 5", so I need the DC piping to be as high as possible (within reason), so I don't constantly hit my head on it or have the garage door rails in the path of the piping, too. In my line drawing, the piping is just a thrown together pathway. It is simple and not ideal, I know, but I was just throwing a basic layout around to give you some idea. I'll probably have 1 more branch, for a miter "station" (still not sure where I would put something like this, as I do not want to dedicate a large area of my small shop for this) or drill press/band saw/benchtop planer.
Oh...almost forgot. Since I already paid the electrician to install a dedicated 220 20A circuit/outlet, I will most likely go with the Oneida V-3000. Sorry Rush

I also "quickly" put together a rough drawing of the entire garage, just so one has the total visual of what I am working with. I do not have any plans to expand into the other parts of the garage, so that is why I was planning on putting together a pvc\vinyl-like partition (see dotted/dashed line). Think of it as a large shower curtain with 4-5 actual oversized shower curtain liners (glued/taped together?): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YFPPH4Q/

If you want/need more information on this partition, my previous post has the link to a plan for this partition.

Again... thank you everyone for your input, ideas, suggestions, etc.

I greatly appreciate it..... Rory

 

[Rushton]

Rory, your brain is definitely working on this puzzle - good! Do you need 220v circuits for your table saw or jointer, also? Easier to pull multiples while your electrician is onsite, if needed.

Extension cords - fine if heavy enough gauge, but be cautious. The voltage drop can be hard on the motors if not properly sized. Also, agree with Wiley's earlier comment that pulling 20Amp circuits to begin with is the way to go, assuming any circuits will be added.

Oneida v. Clear Vue -- oh well. I tried.

No matter the dust collector, avoiding double backs on the ducts will give you better air flow. Doubling back adds a lot of resistance to that portion of the line -- you lose a lot of efficiency, particularly noticeable with the smaller units.

Keep at it! You're making progress.

 

[Warped Woodwerks]

This is what the electrician installed, May 2nd, 2021. 60A sub panel with each outlet on 20A breakers.



1: 220
2: 220
3: 110
4: 220
5: 110


Regarding your question: "Do you need 220v circuits for your table saw or jointer, also?" I have a 3hp SS, so yes. I don't have a jointer, yet, but plan on going 8" 3hp.

Electrical Cord: I am hoping the above mentioned extension cord (12/3 SJT NEMA 6-20) will do the trick. Just to make sure any extension cord is OK to use, I reached out to Oneida.

Oneida/CV: Yes, you sure did try and were very close.

I'll do my best, in regards to those pesky double backs. Inefficiency is the last thing I want.

Once I hear back from Oneida, regarding the extension cord, I'm hoping to be 1 step closer to moving forward with this project.


Thanks again.... Rory

 

[Warped Woodwerks]

Oneida responded and it looks like that extension cord will work.

*Sweet!*