PM2000 electrical problem

[Badabing]

I'm hoping to get some suggestions on how to fix this problem...

I bought my PM2000 table saw in November '07 and love it. It has worked flawlessly up until this past weekend. That's when it started tripping the breaker on the circuit sometimes. The saw will come on, but sound like it is not at full speed, then the breaker trips. Other times, it comes on just fine at full speed and there's no problem. I can actually tell when it will happen, shut off the saw before the breaker trips, and then turn it back with no problem.

I ran the 240V circuit myself and had no problems at all doing it. In fact, it was an existing circuit that I used for over 3 years on my previous saw and I just reran the wiring for the PM2000. Like I said, the saw has been working fine until just the other day.

I cleaned out all the sawdust, checked the wiring for the motor, the plug, and the outlet. The motor seems to get really hot as well, too hot to keep your hand resting on it for more than a second or two. Is this normal?

Any advice would be appreciated!

 

[rywilson]

Joe I've had mine for about a month and noticed it doing the same. Like you I wired this myself. I'm waiting for my father to visit to verify I wired everything correctly.

I will be watching this thread for any updates.

 

[Badabing]

Ryan, did it ever work right for you? Mine was fine until a few days ago :BangHead:

BTW, I just got off the phone with WMH Customer Service (could not reach them until just now) and Tech Support told me that I should have it on a 30 amp circuit instead of 20 amp. So they suggested I change that first. I may have to run new wire because I have 12/3 and a 30 amp may need 10 ga., I have no idea though.

Also, he mentioned a problem with a "centrifugal switch" on the motor that could go bad (but very unlikely), or the belt might be spinning on the shaft. He said to put dado stack or some other heavy blade on the arbor, then open the door and watch the pully as you turn the saw on to see if the belt spins without turning it or not.

So there are a couple of things to check on if that helps! I'll report an update as soon as I get to this and see some results :icon_thum

 

[rywilson]

Based on my research I also have mine on a 20amp. I suspected this may be the issue but have not changed it out yet.

I have not used the saw much but the first few times worked without any problems. Even now it seams random as to when it happens.

I guess I will change mine to a 30 and see how that goes. Let me know how it works out on your end. I'll do the same

 

[norm932]

Joe
I was just typing the same ideas as your tech guy. I'm assuming your saw is 5hp you will need 30 amp breaker with 10ga wire, but you can check it with the 12 wire just replace the breaker see is that solves your problem. If that is it be safe and up to code and replace wire.

 

[gator]

I don't own a cabinet saw (or anything with a 3 or 5 HP motor) so take my comments with a grain of salt. I wouldn't think that the motor should get hot enough that you can't put your hand on it and I don't see how a loose belt would heat up the motor, if anything the motor should run with less load and not get as hot as with a load.

George

 

[MIKE NOAH]

FWIW, the last time I spoke with Tom Hintz he mentioned people questioning the power of the pm2000 and and having breaker tripping issues I think. The cause in most cases was the belt slipping on the pulley. It doesn't chirp like a typical v belt when it's loose & spinning. I purchased mine a couple of month's ago off CL and haven't got to use it too much yet as I am still in the shop construction phase. What little I have used it has been with a 20 amp circuit and no problems so far
Mike

 

[Badabing]

I just got off the phone with Greg (Woodguy2K). He is an Industrial Electrician and told me that it doesn't sounds like a problem with the wiring.

BTW, it is a 3HP motor and the manual instructs using a 20 amp circuit. Local code is that I need 12 ga wire for that so that is what I used :dontknow: so go figure :dontknow:

I think the total run of 12 ga wire is about 30 feet so that should be fine too. Greg suggested I call back and talk to a different technician as well. If I talk to someone and let them know that I did everything right with the wiring then maybe they'll have a better idea of what the problem is rather than try to blame something else :widea:

 

[Phil S]

Your problem is voltage drop at startup and is caused by the small gauge wire. Change to 10 gauge and that will solve your startup problem and will save your motor. My guess under these conditions you will need a new motor within a year. You do not need to change breakers to 30amps, just upsize the wire. If the run is under 50 feet than 10 is fine, over 50 go to 8 gauge.

 

[rywilson]

Your problem is voltage drop at startup and is caused by the small gauge wire. Change to 10 gauge and that will solve your startup problem and will save your motor. My guess under these conditions you will need a new motor within a year. You do not need to change breakers to 30amps, just upsize the wire. If the run is under 50 feet than 10 is fine, over 50 go to 8 gauge.

Phil could you please elaborate on this?
How would having the 12ga wire destroy the motor within a year?

I'm trying to understand as I don't have a good handle on electric.

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

Come on guys, lets stop guessing. Time to get an expert in here!!!

First, I'm not that expert, but offer the following. A 220V, 20A, 12 ga. circuit should be more than enough for a 3 hp motor. Starting loads are usually higher, but short-lived, but my 3 hp Uni only draws 12.5A. 10 gauge wire is NOT needed!

Unless you have a bad connection at the panel or the outlet that would be arcing and sparking, the problem is likely not with your power supply. It is more likely a problem with the way the motor is wired, or a problem with the start switch, start/run capacitor, or the the centrifugal switch inside the motor.

Make sure all connections in your starter/contactor are tight and that the contacts are clean and not pitted. Make sure motor's centrifugal switch springs are ok and the contacts are clean, not carboned, nor pitted. My DC motor had intermittent trouble starting. The centrifugal switch contacts got pitted. Once they were cleaned it worked fine, every time.

 

[SteveColes]

Come on guys, lets stop guessing. Time to get an expert in here!!!

First, I'm not that expert, but offer the following. A 220V, 20A, 12 ga. circuit should be more than enough for a 3 hp motor. Starting loads are usually higher, but short-lived, but my 3 hp Uni only draws 12.5A. 10 gauge wire is NOT needed!

Unless you have a bad connection at the panel or the outlet that would be arcing and sparking, the problem is likely not with your power supply. It is more likely a problem with the way the motor is wired, or a problem with the start switch, start/run capacitor, or the the centrifugal switch inside the motor.

Make sure all connections in your starter/contactor are tight and that the contacts are clean and not pitted. Make sure motor's centrifugal switch springs are ok and the contacts are clean, not carboned, nor pitted. My DC motor had intermittent trouble starting. The centrifugal switch contacts got pitted. Once they were cleaned it worked fine, every time.

Agreed, I have the PM2000, 3HP, on a 45 ft run (30 foot cable reel) 20 AMP circuit. No problems. I've had it for more than a year and a half

 

[welldigger]

I agree with Alan. I have seen jet pump motors w/same problem. Probably capacitor or centrifugal switch,tho usually the thermal overload will trip before the circuit breaker

 

[Travis Porter]

I'm with Alan. I would guess the centrifugal switch is sticking as the most likely culprit.

 

[WoodWrangler]

It's just the weather. Don't mess with that electrical stuff. A better day is right around the corner. :dontknow:

 

[MrAudio815]

I'm hoping to get some suggestions on how to fix this problem...

I bought my PM2000 table saw in November '07 and love it. It has worked flawlessly up until this past weekend. That's when it started tripping the breaker on the circuit sometimes. The saw will come on, but sound like it is not at full speed, then the breaker trips. Other times, it comes on just fine at full speed and there's no problem. I can actually tell when it will happen, shut off the saw before the breaker trips, and then turn it back with no problem.

I ran the 240V circuit myself and had no problems at all doing it. In fact, it was an existing circuit that I used for over 3 years on my previous saw and I just reran the wiring for the PM2000. Like I said, the saw has been working fine until just the other day.

I cleaned out all the sawdust, checked the wiring for the motor, the plug, and the outlet. The motor seems to get really hot as well, too hot to keep your hand resting on it for more than a second or two. Is this normal?

Any advice would be appreciated!

Well I bought my PM2000 March First, waited a few weeks to get the casters fixed, waited a couple more weeks to put it togethere and run the 20amp circuit breaker, and 10 gauge wire and plug along with a 10 gauge 15' extension cord I made my self. I turn on the Saw for the first time 2 1/2 weeks ago. Then while reading in the manual I noticed that it needed rubber grouments between the work bench and the back rail. Then the lag bolts for the vise face broke off into the wood and waited until yesterday to get it all togethere. I cut some 1 1/4" MDF for my KREG router table and 45 degreed the edges and ran it for may 30 minutes with no problems. Now if I have anymore problems like you guys are describing, then I think I am going to..... :BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead: Yup thats what I am going to do then I will probably:saw: :XXfridge: well :nah:!

Anyway I hope you find out your problem and get it fixed of course, and please let us know. It will be nice if it happens to mine in the future and I already know what to do. ccasion1 Root beer Floats anyone!
Here's some pictures of my TS&WB&DC


Sincerely,

Matthew & Rachel
Custom Home Audio
M&R Audio

 

[tom hintz]

FWIW, the last time I spoke with Tom Hintz he mentioned people questioning the power of the pm2000 and and having breaker tripping issues I think. The cause in most cases was the belt slipping on the pulley. It doesn't chirp like a typical v belt when it's loose & spinning. I purchased mine a couple of month's ago off CL and haven't got to use it too much yet as I am still in the shop construction phase. What little I have used it has been with a 20 amp circuit and no problems so far
Mike

The breaker thing is a different issue. We have seen several guys that thought the PM2000 motor was underpowered and that turned out to be the belt slipping. The serpentine belt does not squeal or smell when it slips like a regular V-belt and that was faking people out. Tightening the belt cured those problems. This breaker deal sounds different and I would go with the Powermatic tech people on this one. They get to hear all of the problems and have a much better data base to work from in terms of a cure.

 

[rywilson]

Any updates on this?
I just called PM this morning as the problem occurred again over the weekend. The man I spoke with made it sound like this was a known issue and that moving to a 30amp breaker would correct the issue.

 

[SteveColes]

Any updates on this?
I just called PM this morning as the problem occurred again over the weekend. The man I spoke with made it sound like this was a known issue and that moving to a 30amp breaker would correct the issue.

First, that is the easy way of fixing a problem. It is also dangerous. You should demand that they fix the real issue, if it is known.

Ryan, I have a new switch for the PM2000. If you would like to borrow it and try to rule your switch in or out, I would be glad to let you borrow it.

Send me a PM

 

[garymuto]

I had a similar problem with my air compressor over the weekend. It turned out to be a loose connection. In my case, it was at the breaker that I installed over 2 years ago which was fine until last week.
A loose connection could cause a voltage drop which could lead to a hot motor. I didn't run my compressor long enough to find out. FWIW, I would check the electrical supply connections at the motor and the plug if they were supplied by PM. Maybe check your line voltage too??