Planer and Band Saw

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AlexSwansboro

New User
Alex
As some of you may know I have completed a few projects and I think I am ready to move onto a glider chair that I saw in wood magazine. I am posting this because I am considering a few new tools and I have a few questions. I think I am in the market for a jointer and a band saw. I am been purchasing my wood from the big box stores, I know it's a four letter word for some. I think I need the jointer because I am moving over to the hardwood stores around here and just assume I need it in order to get my wood in the shape I want it, in order to work with it (ie. flat and straight). Advice on this end? Do most wood workers have a jointer? What sizes would be acceptable. How about the 110v vs. the 220v?

Also, I am considering a band saw so that I can get those curved cuts and do some resawing. Again, I think I need to do resawing if I am going to buy wood from the hardwood stores around here, but I am not sure.

Next, if I do infact buy these products are there any suggestions in terms of size?

Please give me all the advice you have. Thanks.
 

Tarhead

Mark
Corporate Member
Get the next size up from the biggest bandsaw you think you will ever need and a DW735 planer.
 

Henry W

Henry
Corporate Member
Size of planer and band saw...

Well 14" band saws are pretty much the workhorse. People claim to resaw well with a well tuned machine, but I have not accomplished (or really tried) that yet with mine. larger more powerful saws would be welcomed by most, but of course they come at a cost.

Planers - well 12-13" capacity seems to be the general limit for the lunchbox (i.e. bench top models). Many accomplish much with these machines. I have a older floor model, but it has the same capacity. Bigger more powerful machines (15 or 20") are nice, but are also a big step up in cost.

I have bought most of my major pieces used (no strike that - ALL of tools have been acquired used, except one router, sander, drill, and jigsaw). Knowing what you want and watching Craigslist, you can save about 50% from new prices.

Hope that helps....

Henry W
 

Bas

Recovering tool addict
Bas
Corporate Member
When you're working with roughsawn wood, you need a jointer to straighten it and a planer to get it to the right (and uniform) thickness. Jointer sizes indicate how wide a board they can flatten, typically from 6" - 12". Prices for a 6" jointer start around $400 new, and you can go up to $3000 for a 12" jointer with spiral cutterhead. Grizzly, JET, Powermatic, Ridgid, Delta make decent machines. A long bed helps with longer stock. For planing, you can get a "lunchbox" planer (so called because of the way it looks), which can typically handle stock 12"-13" wide. Ridigd, DeWalt, Delta etc. all make good machines. Prices are roughly $400-$600 new. The next step up is a stationary planer (15" - 20", with prices ranging from $800 to $3000 new.

What size do you need? I used to have a 6" jointer, and found it limiting because most boards I buy are ~8" wide. You can rip the boards narrower first and then joint, but you lose some material that way. For a planer, 12" is plenty for most use. You can use a planer "sled" to joint wider boards, but it's something you want to do only once in a while, not for every project.

Regarding band saws - do you want to resaw stock? That is a big factor.
 

AlexSwansboro

New User
Alex
Regarding band saws - do you want to resaw stock? That is a big factor.

I am not really sure if I want to resaw stock. Let me make sure that I know what resaw means first. From my understanding resawing stock means basically cutting it to a more narrow piece. Perhaps taking a 2x4, and cutting its 3/4x4?

Question about the jointer. If I have a piece of stock that is too wide for the jointer can it pass it over the jointer on one side, and then spin the board around and pass it over again to get a uniform thickness? It sounds feasible to me, but I don't know.

Advice?
 

Tarhead

Mark
Corporate Member
I am not really sure if I want to resaw stock. Let me make sure that I know what resaw means first. From my understanding resawing stock means basically cutting it to a more narrow piece. Perhaps taking a 2x4, and cutting its 3/4x4?

Yes that is resawing. The height between the table and the highest point the blade will cut is an important thing to consider. Taller resaws equal bigger saws and require stiffer spines and more power.


Question about the jointer. If I have a piece of stock that is too wide for the jointer can it pass it over the jointer on one side, and then spin the board around and pass it over again to get a uniform thickness? It sounds feasible to me, but I don't know.

That requires you to remove the blade guard and to hold your mouth just right. I've never been able to do it and have an acceptable surface. One half of the board is always thinner. You either have to rip the board into pieces that will fit, face joint them individually and glue then back together. Or you can make a planer sled and run the wide board through the planer.
 

ehpoole

Administrator
Ethan
I am not really sure if I want to resaw stock. Let me make sure that I know what resaw means first. From my understanding resawing stock means basically cutting it to a more narrow piece. Perhaps taking a 2x4, and cutting its 3/4x4?

Question about the jointer. If I have a piece of stock that is too wide for the jointer can it pass it over the jointer on one side, and then spin the board around and pass it over again to get a uniform thickness? It sounds feasible to me, but I don't know.

You have the idea of resawing correct... with resawing you can re-dimension lumber (esp. lumber too large for a tablesaw) as well as saw your own veneers. With resawing you will want to use wider blades (typically 1/2" for 14" bandsaw, 3/4" for 16", 1" for 18-20") with few teeth per inch (typically on the order of 2-3) with large gullets to carry away the sawdust. You also need a bandsaw with enough vertical cutting height for the widest board you wish to resaw. A typical basic 14" bandsaw has a 6" resaw height *or* 12" with an installed riser block. Many larger saws (and some 14" models) have 12" give-or-take resaw capacity. When resawing wide boards it is nice to have atleast 2-3HP, though many get by with much less but patience and technique come into play.

As for your jointer question. You can make an imperfect near-doublewide joint by passing a board over the jointer twice with American style jointers that include a rabbeting ledge ... however this is not always the case and even less so with European style jointers. You will need to finish cleaning up the double-jointed side with a followup pass through your thickness planer AFTER you plane the unjointed side first -- this cleanup pass through the planer will remove the inevitable ridge left behind by the two passes. The rabbetting ledge will provide additional support to help stabilize the wide board -- the rabbetting ledge is also useful for, well, rabbetting on your jointer. However, this double-wide technique has a drawback with woods prone to tearout since the second pass will have to go against the wood's grain -- this is where a jointer sled for your thickness planer can bail you out. Please be advised that while I am familiar with this technique I have as of yet not needed to actually attempt such on my 8" Jet Jointer.

My advice regarding jointers -- unless you work *exclusively* with 6" or narrower boards, it is well worth the extra money for an 8" jointer (new or used)... 6" jointers are considerably cheaper simply because there is a perpetual glut of them from previous owners dumping them to upgrade to wider models! Few woodworkers ever regret having splurged for an 8" jointer, though many regret having not done so.

Along with the jointer, however, you will find that a thickness planer is also indispensible for both thicknessing lumber as well as makeing both sides parallel to each other -- something a jointer can not do on its own. I purchased my 8" Jet Jointer and my 13" DeWalt DW735 Planer at the same time because the two tools really are incomplete without one another if your goal is to process your own rough lumber to save money at the lumber yard. If you want to pay for S4S then its a bit different, but then you already know S4S lumber (surfaced 4 sides) is quite expensive versus roughsawn.

For the bandsaw question, my feelings are along these lines: If you intend to use your bandsaw primarlily for scrolling largish items (larger than you'd scroll on a scrollsaw) then a 14" bandsw is your bandsaw of choice. They have crowned wheels that accept narrow blades (1/8" or less) very well, but at the expense of optimal traction with larger blades used in resawing. On the other hand, if you intend to use your bandsaw for gentle curves with 1/4" or larger blades as well as for resawing (3/4" to 1" blades) then an 18" (or thereabouts) bandsaw with its lesser crowned wheels and more powerful motor is a better choice. In and ideal world one would own both, but this, I feel, is a good basis for choosing one over the other. Since I am interested primarily in resawing and cutting curves second I opted for an 18" (really 18-3/4 on mine) Rikon Bandsaw (model 10-345). It is a good quality European style bandsaw with 12" resaw capacity and a 2.5HP motor capable of handling up to 1-1/4" blades (you won't need more than 1" though) at a respectable price. Rikon also has a very nice European style 14" bandsaw (their Deluxe 14" model). European style bandsaws are built of heavy-gauge tubular steel and much lighter (but extremely strong) than their more traditional heavy-weight back-breaking cast-iron bandsaws. As for European vs Cast-iron -- it is really more of a personal choice IMHO.

As for 120V vs. 220V -- it really comes down to the size of the equipment and the horsepower of the motor. At 120V you are pretty much limited to a maximum of 15A which, in practical terms, leaves you with about 1.5 to 1.7 *actual* horsepower as an absolute maximum. A 20A 220V receptacle, on the other hand, can handle up to a true 3HP motor. If you are at all serious about woodworking then you will want atleast 3-4 220V 20-30A receptacles (if you use atleast #10 copper you will be able to easily convert 20A 220V receptacles to 30A receptacles without rewiring) installed in your workshop (roughly as follows: one for 220V power tools, one for Dust Collector, one for a larger air compressor or other power tool, one for air conditioning and/or electric heat). Each of these receptacles should be a dedicated circuit with its own circuit breaker since these are equipment combinations that may draw power simultaneously. If you only use one power tool at a time then all your 220V power tools can draw power from the same circuit -- just remember you can only run one such tool at a time (seldom an issue in a one-man shop). You will quickly find that installing a dedicated 60-100A subpanel in your workshop is the best solution -- once a subpanel is run to your workshop you can then either surface mount wiring for new receptacles (preferably in PVC or metallic conduit) or, if you have open studs, you can fish the Romex through them to the desired new receptacle.

If you have any other questions, by all means feel free to ask!

Edit: When I say "at all serious about woodworking" I really should have qualified that with respect to power tools. We have some really talented hand tool enthusiasts here. There are also many who manage to get by with the limiations of 120V only, but you are limited to much smaller machines and their inherent limitations.
 
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junquecol

Bruce
Senior User
You can face joint up to 9" wide boards on a 6" jointer, but you will also need a planer to finish them. Jointer MUST have a rabbeting ledge (most do.) Remove existing "pork chop" guard, and replace it with a shop built "euro" guard. On in feed table, add a shim (I use 1/4" hardboard, held in place by double stick tape) the left edge of which has to line up with rabbeting ledge. Lower in feed table, and face joint board. This will produce a board with a "lip." (The unjointed area.) Take board to planer, and add a shim (with double stick tape) to area that is jointed. Run through planer till second side is parallel to first. Turn board over, remove shim, and plane away lip. Then complete planing of board. CL is your friend for used tools. But they seem to only come in bunches. First none, and suddenly several appear.
 

merrill77

Master Scrap Maker
Chris
Question about the jointer. If I have a piece of stock that is too wide for the jointer can it pass it over the jointer on one side, and then spin the board around and pass it over again to get a uniform thickness? It sounds feasible to me, but I don't know.

I've heard that is possible, but not easy. Doesn't sound terribly safe to me, either.

I have a planer but no jointer. With a simple sled and some wedges, you can get a flat face using a planer. Since planers are, in general, wider than jointers, this approach greatly increases your capacity per dollar spent. Here is a recent discussion on the topic. I found this technique to be more reliable and safer than the jointer as well...and is why I no longer have a jointer. And, of course, a planer can make your wood a consistent thickness, which a jointer cannot do. I buy all my lumber rough cut.

Chris
 

lnelson

New User
Larry
Comment regarding resawing wood and what band saw to buy. Unless you expect to get into some really extreme wood, I think that a 14" band saw is fine. I have a 14" Jet bandsaw and just finished resawing some 6" hickory. Got the job done with no issues. I am sure that some of the bigger bandsaws out there would have displayed more muscle in getting the job done but for the money I think that a 14" is the standard. Equally important to the saw is the blade used. For my hickory project I used a 3/4" blade. I know I got it from a company in Canada but I do not remember the company name. I remember reading a product review in Fine Woodworking years ago where they recommended these blades as far superior to other options. Anyone out there remember/know the name of the Canadian blade company?
 

Tarhead

Mark
Corporate Member
BC Saw (Toronto) was the Best Buy in the FWW review of 1/2" Resaw blades. Woodslicer from Highland was the best performer.
 

09woodie22

New User
Gabe
I'm going to address your questions as an "advanced beginner" only... so take it for what it is worth.

First thought -- anything that can reasonably justify the purchase of new tools and equiptment is worth considering!!! :rolleyes:

Then, there is the cost factor... Ugh! Saved up and recently bought a Laguna SUV ("souped up version") 14" bandsaw. My research and a few comments here helped me to just 'pull the trigger' on that one. Just finished making a cradle for my daughter in oak. What a stupendous bandsaw! Better (IMHO) than others I have tried. But my experience is somewhat limited. I respectfully recommend that one, however it is pricey. It was on sale at Woodcraft.

I have been able to stay away from the jointer by having my wood "faced" at the lumber yard. Few cents extra in cost, but the jointer would be hundreds, and then there is the fun of figuring out how you get a 500 to 600 pounder out of your truck and into your shop! :mrgreen: Hope you have lotsa friends!
 

jahrules

New User
Greg
Question about the jointer. If I have a piece of stock that is too wide for the jointer can it pass it over the jointer on one side, and then spin the board around and pass it over again to get a uniform thickness? It sounds feasible to me, but I don't know.

Advice?


Im really surprised that nobody mentioned grain direction here... The guard and difficulty in getting it perfectly even are valid points as well, but grain direction is the big killer.

When jointing you will find that unless you pass the stock against the grain direction you will get tearout. The degree of tearout will vary board to board with how it was cut and the severity of grain 'slope' but you will get tearout. In the best case this can make your nice figured woods that much harder to smooth, in the worst case you could tear your board in half and potentially risk injury.

It simply is not a good idea to try to flip the board around to joint wider stock.
 

ehpoole

Administrator
Ethan
Im really surprised that nobody mentioned grain direction here... The guard and difficulty in getting it perfectly even are valid points as well, but grain direction is the big killer.

I'm pretty sure I mentioned the grain direction issue when jointing over-wide boards:

However, this double-wide technique has a drawback with woods prone to tearout since the second pass will have to go against the wood's grain -- this is where a jointer sled for your thickness planer can bail you out.
Just saying :wink_smil

As for whether or not the grain direction issue is a 'killer' depends heavily on the wood and the sharpness of your knives. With sharp knives many woods will not tearout even when wood is fed against the grain. It's with woods that are highly prone to tearout (e.g very hard or wild grained) or dulled knives that tearout becomes a significant 'killer' factor.

As for 'ripping board in half' I don't think you will find anybody recommending this practice for extremely wild grained boards (a dose of common sense is expected). Nor is anyone recommending the user try to take 1/2" off in a pass just because your jointer is capable of such (again, a dose of common sense is implied). Typically, the user will be removing no more than 1/32" per pass, even as little as 1/64" if conditions dictate such. The purpose of the technique is to create a surface sufficiently flat to finish off with a thickness planer, not to reach final thickness on the jointer. Provided your knives are kept appropriately sharp and you are removing no more than 1/64" to 1/32" per pass, the risk of serious kickback is remote, even moreso if one avoids boards with wild interlocked-grain.

Nonetheless, please note that many of us mention, and even encourage, the use of a planer sled when dealing with over-wide boards -- especially where tearout due to wild grain is a potential issue. I'm not a big fan of planer sleds for jointing 8" and under boards (there are drawbacks to planer sleds, esp. with thinner and more flexible boards) but they are a good option for dealing with those rare occassions you need to joint and plane a board too wide for your jointer.

As for the guard, they are not an issue with American style jointers.. loosen one bolt and the guard removes in under 5 seconds for such -- just as with rabbetting on the jointer. If you use proper technique, common sense, and push-paddles then the jointer is quite safe to use in this manner. I always use push-paddles when face jointing -- doing so adds an important second layer of protection in the event a very rare kickback event occurs. The first layer of protection, of course, is common sense coupled with never allowing your hand to pass over the area above the knives. Keep your hands away from the knives and the worst accident you should ever have on the jointer is your board getting kicked out to the right of you if a kickback ever occurs. Even so, jointer kickback is generally the result of dull knives and/or the user trying to take far too much off the board in a single pass.

FWIW, I have my jointer knives professionally sharpened and it costs less than $30 for all 3 8" knives (I'm sure there are even cheaper services out there, but this is convenient for me since they get dropped off at my house). I also keep a spare set of sharpened knives on hand. This practice discourages the use of dull knives and dull knives are what makes a jointer dangerous!
 

Bas

Recovering tool addict
Bas
Corporate Member
6" jointers are considerably cheaper simply because there is a perpetual glut of them from previous owners dumping them to upgrade to wider models! Few woodworkers ever regret having splurged for an 8" jointer, though many regret having not done so.
Very true, although that is precisely the reason why I often recommend getting a 6" jointer instead of an 8" one!

If you buy a standard 6" jointer with straight knives:

  • You'll spend less money up front
  • You'll learn the joys of setting knives
  • You'll understand tearout
  • You'll be frustrated how you can't face joint most boards without ripping them down
  • You'll learn how to use a planer sled effectively, and how it's a good solution for the occasional board but inconvenient for every day operations
  • You'll learn you really want a 12" jointer with a spiral cutterhead
The same applies if you go with an 8" jointer, except now you're spending more money up front, and you're likely to lose a little more in the resale :rotflm:

In all seriousness, an 8" jointer is a great fit for most woodworkers. But, if you're the kind of person who always seems to be upgrading, starting at 6" and bypassing the 8" machine may be the better route. Plus, if you buy a 6" jointer used, you can typically resell it at only a very small loss.
 

Tarhead

Mark
Corporate Member
Just build little things or big things with lots of 6" boards and it's a non-issue.:gar-Bi
 

ehpoole

Administrator
Ethan
Just build little things or big things with lots of 6" boards and it's a non-issue.:gar-Bi

That is certainly an option. Though, IMHO there have been a number of times where I have found the extra 2" of an 8" (or 8-1/8") jointer vs a 6" extremely handy, there have been only a handful where I *really* could have used something wider.

For instance, I recently made up a 13" deep drawer to store my pneumatic nailers in so they may finally have a home. With an 8" jointer I only had to match grain and color for a single joint to make up the drawer front (8" plus 5"). Had I been limited to 6" I would have had to make 3 seamless glueups (esp. if this were more than a shop item).

If you want to make a 32" wide table top you can get by with 4 boards and 3 seams with an 8" jointer versus 6 boards and 5 seams with a 6" jointer. Of course, if you're in the market for a 12" jointer then you could have gotten by with 3 boards and 2 seams.

I would never discourage anyone from aquiring a 12" jointer (or even a 36" if you can find such a beast :wink_smil), but *I* knew up front that if I had spent money on a 6" jointer I would only have wound up selling it out of frustration in a few years to aquire an 8" model. Unless the projects of interest to me change radically or I come across a way-too-good-to-ignore deal on a modern 12" jointer I don't see myself as likely to be replacing my 8" jointer anytime soon and I have had it for 4 years now.

I'm not real keen on the combo units although they are a great fit for some and can offer an avenue to a wider jointer with some degree of economy. With my health I don't care for having to switch back and forth (I often joint and plane, joint and plane... and I prefer the ability to do so without changing settings). I also make use of the rabbetting ledge of my jointer, which many combo units don't support. Additionally, I don't care for having to stoop down to feed boards through a low-to-the-floor combo jointer/planer's planer due to a bad back. Dedicated machines allow me to work from a comfortable height for each machine. Again, I'm not knocking the combo machines for those genuinely interested, just saying they are not ideal for everyone.

I would never knock anyone on a tight budget (or who are locked-in to 120V) who invests in a 6" jointer. Alot of good can come from a 6" Jointer and the limitations can be worked around. I'm just strongly encouraging those who can afford an 8" jointer (new or used) to seriously consider such. Like I said earlier, few woodworkers ever regret having splurged for an 8" Jointer, though many regret having not done so. And if you can splurge for 12", then by all means -- more power to you!

In the years before I setup my shop I did quite alot of research on tools, setting up workshops and so forth. I can't recall a single book or magazine I read where the author did not strongly encourage the upgrade to an 8" Jointer for those who could afford such. I have never regretted having taken that advice to heart despite the fact that my [new] 8" Jointer probably cost me nearly twice what I could have aquired a 6" Jointer for.

Hopefully this constructive debate will assist the OP in evaluating their new equipment choices.
 

bluedawg76

New User
Sam
all sage advice..... so here's my 2 cents:
given the choice of a bandsaw, planer, jointer, I'd buy them in that order for the following reasons:

1) band saw (14-inch): This machine is so versatile for curves, tapers, little pieces, resaws etc that it would be my first choice in terms of best bang for your buck for getting started. you can always buy surfaced lumber

2) planer (12-13-inch): As others have mentioned you can face joint with a sled or heaven forbid, use a bench plane to get it close enough and then run through your planer. Only real problem is edge jointing which you can do with a table saw sled (or a jointer plane). I use my planer far more than my jointer.

3) jointer. 6 vs. 8-inch boils down to cost i.e. what can you afford. you'll be happy with a 6-inch, but most of my lumber is 7-8inches. That said, i have a 6-inch b/c I don't have the money for an 8-inch (hey this is just a hobby right) and I don't have 220v.

in case you missed it, a nice dewalt planer was posted here, so forget my advice and grab what you can while the deals last.

HTH,
Sam
 
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