Pen Making Questions

[Acelectric]

I am contemplating starting a journey into pen making. Trying to decide what supplies and equipment would be best to get. I have a few questions I am hoping you experienced penmakers out there can help me with.

First up is what kind of mandrel should I get? I have been looking at the Mandrel Saver from PSI. The concept of it makes sense to me but are there reasons I should get a normal mandrel instead?

Second, where is a good place to get pen making supplies? Not pen blanks but just the kits. I have been looking around at PSI and a few other places. One of the things I want to make is pencil kits. All of PSI's kits use 0.7mm lead and I would rather have 0.5mm lead. I prefer to get all my supplies from one place. Is there a better place to buy from then PSI?

Third is about finishes. What is a good way to finish the pens? I have seen everything from simple polishes to heat activated lacquers to ca glue. I just want a durable finish that will hold up over time whether I give them away as gifts or sell them.

Any other information or suggestions is appreciated.

 

[Carl Fisher]

Well, each of your questions could fill entire threads on their own but I'll give you a few things to think about.

Mandrels will always be troublesome. This can be minimized with either an adjustable mandrel that can be shortened or by using a mandrel saver as posted above. As soon as you put pressure directly on the mandrel, you risk bowing it and creating out of round and/or concentric issues. Personally I only break out the mandrel for 7mm kits anymore. Anything else gets turned directly between centers with a caliper to match the final diameter to the kit pieces.

There are a ton of great vendors out there. Exotic Blanks is my #1 supplier. They resell much of PSI's line along with quite a bit from Berea and several other manufacturers. Again there are so many vendors out there that I could list, but Exotic has been the best for me in terms of quality of customer service and quality of product.

As for finishes, I would start with a friction polish such as Doctor's Woodshop Pen finish or something similar which are basically a mix of walnut oil, shellac, and waxes. When you are ready to try something new, CA finishing is a good place to start but can take many dozen or more pens to get the hang of it and more to perfect it. You could also look into poly dips like they do for arrow shafts or lacquer finishes if you are a patient type of person.

If you have more direct questions, I'd be happy to help in any way I can. Welcome to the addiction!

 

[BKind2Anmls]

My 1.5 cents:
+1 for turning between centers. I don't even use a mandrel any more. I did use the mandrel saver (you still need a mandrel) and it worked much better than the brass nut.
CA is a good finish but get someone to show you how to do it. Much less frustrating that way. Most people sand too much when starting off. You will probably also want to get all the Micromesh grits.
Ebay is a great place to get blanks.
Be aware that pens that use the Cross-Style refill generally do not write as well as those with Parker-style refills. If you are selling your pens, keep this in mind. I didn't even think about the refills when I first started; I wish I had.
If you want to start with slim lines, like most people (because they are inexpensive), search the web for "modified slim lines" and try some of those. You can really get creative.
Look up "oops bands," you'll need them.
Don't overlook letter openers and magnifying glasses. These are some of my best sellers. Also, people love those little credit card pens. Go figure.
The best sites, IMHO, for penturning information are these three:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/index.php
http://www.penmakersguild.com/
http://www.woodcentral.com/russ/russindex.shtml (for finishing not using CA)

Do you have a pen press? If not, you can use the lathe. Also, how are you going to drill out the centers. Some do it with the lathe and some with a drill press. There is also milling the end of the pen. You can use an end mill in a drill, an end mill in the lathe, or a sander with a jig.

I get my kits from everywhere that is having a sale. I signed up with several different pen kit companies and receive their emails.

 

[MrAudio815]

1: I'd give the Mandrel saver a try & these jaws for drilling the blanks.

2: I like Woodturningz for their prices for sure and fast shipping. Cigar kits that I turned are $4.20 to $4.75 each...Cheapest I have found & they have a 12oz can of activator for only $12.95 which is used for CA finishes.

3: I'd go with a CA finish. I have a great video of how to do it that I need to upload to YouTube... I'll let you know when I do...In the mean time use the little plastic bags that hold the pen/pencil parts and put your finger in one. Turn the lathe on medium speed say 400 rpm and slowly drip (2-3 drops) thick or medium CA glue on the blank while spreading it with the plastic bag on your finger from one side to the other then move your finger back and forth a couple times then pull away. Spray the activator a couple times, wait 20 seconds or so and it should be dry. Turn off the lathe to make sure it's dry. (touch with finger if sticky wait a little longer or a tad more activator, but too much will make it white and cloudy). After a few times you'll figure out the timing/amount of activator needed. Put three coats on and never use the same side of the bag more than once. Sand with 320 to 400 grit at same rpm then length wise till the finish is level. Then proceed with the micro mesh, sanding length wise between each pad up to the last three which don't need it.


Good luck,

Matthew

 

[Acelectric]

Thanks for all the info. I will check out the links.

So it looks like CA glue is the way to go. It comes in different thicknesses, do I need all of them?

Also any suggestions for tools? I am leaning toward the carbide tipped tools since I have never been any good at sharpening anything. Should I go for the mini size or go ahead and get the full size tools?

I plan on using my drill press to drill out the blanks, trim the blanks, and also as a pen press. Any problems with doing it that way?

Again thanks for the info. I appreciate it.

 

[FlyingRon]

We got started in this a few years ago after Margy turned a pen at a pen show. We've got a noname mini lathe. Sharpening the tools is NOT that daunting. You're going to use smaller tools so the sharpening is proportionally easier than doing a big bowl gouge. I managed to score one of the "pricing mistake" workshops from homedepot a couple of years back.

Margy got one of the tabletop drill presses to drill the blanks. The one thing that is really handy is a little vice designed to hold pen blanks vertically for drilling (the woodworking places all have them). It's much less finicky than trying to use a handscrew clamp (which was my first attempt) or other device to hold the blank while drilling. As pointed out, CA glue works fine for most purposes.

One thing I've never figured out is why one of the outfits that caters to pen makers doesn't sell a kit with an assortment of bushings in it. Right now every time I get a different pen kit I have to individually order (or figure out if I already have) the right bushings for it.

As pointed out, mandrells have a bad habit of bending. I've gone through a couple already. Fortunately, they're not the most expensive things in the world.

The drill press probably will work as the pen press. Actually I just use the lathe itself. It's not as convenient as a purpose driven press but the tailstock adjustment screw will give all the pressure you need.

 

[ebarr]

I have several thicknesses of CA. Keep in mind that although pricey you will finish ALOT of pens with one bottle. I use the titebond ca, it has a screw cap and I have never had an issue with it drying up in the tip. I also keep mine refrigerated (that came from the titebond rep) don't know if it helps or not but seems to.

Keep in mind CA finish can be very frustrating, but stick with it. Once you find a method that works for you, you will not find a more durable finish. I have seen some of the pens I did with other friction and spray on finishes and they haven't held up nearly as well as the CA.

 

[Carl Fisher]

I'm actually going to go against the grain when it comes to CA. I've used CA for a few years now and feel that i have perfected my CA finish but am now moving completely away from it and looking for alternatives. For me, CA actually doesn't sell as well for me as natural finished pens but more troubling is that I'm also seeing too many failures due to wood movement as the seasons change. I have 5 pens now with shattered CA finish because of wood movement, 2 just last weekend as I was putting them out on the display table.

As for tools, any good HSS set with a spindle gouge or roughing gouge, skew and parting tool will do you just fine. But learn how to sharpen them. I use a wolverine type jig but you can do it with a platform as well. Either way, learn to sharpen or you will run into problems by your 3rd pen. I also use a carbide insert tool (wood pen pro) since I'm not as good with the skew as I'd like to be.

 

[MrAudio815]

Wayne,

All you need is Med or Thick for the finish. The guy in my video uses thick and recommends thick, but all I had was thin and med. I do use a small amount of thin inside the pen blank and then a small amount of med on the brass tube. So I'd get Med & Thin.

Have you ever been to Harbor Freight? Have you ever made your own tools? Then try making an Oland tool as it works great for pens. The larger square sized carbide blade will also help in making a perfect straight cut for slimlines.

You can also make your own Carbide Easy wood tool. If you have any carbide cutters already you just need some square steel stock at Lowes or Fastenal. Make a handle drill a hole slightly smaller than the square bar, epoxy it and pound it in & put a piece of copper over the end. Grind down the tip of the square steel drill a hole and tap it, then put the cutter on with a set screw. Cost maybe $20


Oh and I did see somewhere that there is stretchy CA glue if your worried about it breaking like the guys did in SC.

Have fun~!

 

[Mike Davis]

What ever you decide, make it pretty!

 

[MrAudio815]

One thing I've never figured out is why one of the outfits that caters to pen makers doesn't sell a kit with an assortment of bushings in it. Right now every time I get a different pen kit I have to individually order (or figure out if I already have) the right bushings for it.

Ron,

I totally agree...That's why I only make the Cigar pen, slimline, and Designer pen kits. I would totally make a bunch more if they had all of the bushings in a kit, Some of the higher end bushings as a kit, or even lower end bushings in a kit.

Great idea~!

 

[Acelectric]

Thanks for all the replies.

I might just try my hand at making some tools. I'm not sure why I hadn't thought of that before. I have made about as many things out of metal as I have wood over the years. I can get my hands on some carbide tips and the handle shouldn't be a problem.

I thinking of ordering the 30 slimline pen set from PSI. That should give me enough pens to experiment with different turing techniques and finishes.

Whichever way I end doing it I'm sure it will be pretty.

 

[BKind2Anmls]

I'm with you on CA, Carl. I've got a CA finish down pat, as well, but my clients want a more natural finish. Look at the third link in my post above. Russ Fairfield describes various ways of finishing turnings and doesn't recommend CA for the same reasons you mentioned.

 

[Acelectric]

I've seen very little mention of using spray finishes. Is there a reason not to use them? It seems a couple of coats of spray poly or lacquer would be a good finish.

 

[Carl Fisher]

Spray lacquer is not uncommon. Poly dipping is another option as well. Either way you have to be patient and let the finish cure completely before sanding/polishing/buffing. Another options is General Finishes Wood Turners Finish. It's another good option for a higher gloss finish although not as glassy looking as CA can be, but it's supposed to wear very well as it was developed based on one of their flooring finish products.

The thing to understand is that all finishes will wear over time. I just took a CA finished pen back from a relative after a year and a half and the CA looked like crap. I'm sanding it down now and going to just refinish in a friction polish and let the wood wear as the wood will wear. It's olive wood which polishes very nicely on it's own anyway.

 

[Roy G]

Since you are just starting out, I would think you could buy some kits from all the sellers and see which ones you like. Experiment with finishes, practice your cutting and plan on making lots of mistakes. As long as you take your time, you will turn out a credible product. i still have the first pen I made and it's not one I'd be showing off, but it works and taught me a lot.

Roy G

 

[Acelectric]

Just thought of another question.

What woods are best for making pens? What wood should I avoid?

I found a bunch of small cedar pieces in my grandfather's shop. Also some walnut and some red oak. Would these make good blanks for pens?

 

[MrAudio815]

Well any wood will work,


Some the of the softer ones may possibly blow out. I had some spalted maple that blew out a chunk of wood. The thing is to stabilize it with either Sanding sealer by soaking it or Thin CA glue. I don't like Oak as it splits and takes more sanding and I have 4-5 blanks of white oak for dirt cheap.

I like the Harder woods: Sapele, Koa, Walnut, or I stabilize them to make them harder. I did just drill out some Brown Ebony and that was the hardest wood I have ever drilled. I actually had to drill a smaller hole first, then finish with the larger bit.


Question for the Others? How Thick or Thin do you make your CA Finishes? Just trying to figure out why they crack? To thick, Too thin? The BLO method or just straight CA?

 

[Willemjm]

The first pens I made, I used only the pen kits, no mandrel, nothing other than the normal lathe equipment.

I still prepare my blanks in the lathe, using a 3 jaw chuck, drill them in the lathe with a drill chuck fed from the tailstock. I square the ends on a disk sander with a miter gauge.

I then use the mandrel only for finishing, never needed a mandrel saver.

For finish, I use a Marine Grade Water Based poly from Deft. If it is one pen, I paint it on the lathe, about four coats and finish it next day with rubbing compound. It looks like glass. If I do a lot of pens, I string them on a dowel and spray the finish about 1/2 hour between each coat. There is no sanding between coats. Then back in the mandrel and polish with rubbing compound the next day.