Oliver 299D magnetic starter issue?

[Howie]

This may be a little hard to follow, please bear with me. I have installed a rotary phase converter and it is producing 3 phase power to 3 phase panel. I ran my 10/4 wire to test my Moak jointer and it started fine. Used same to test Oliver planer connecting to disconnect on the planner. The planer motors were wired high voltage. I reconnected both for low voltage at the motor access boxes. When I hit the start button just a slight hum at the magnetic starter (not chatter). My question, is it possible that by reduced line voltage is not compatible with the starter. Starter picture below, notice 400v. Also not familiar w/factory Oliver switch, the upper button (black/start) stayed in when I pushed it (not under power). Could be it pops out when stop button is pushed or just need a good cleaning. Thanks in advance.

 

[Jim Roche]

I had a Moak table saw once that had a dual voltage motor and when I bought it, it was set up for 440. I too had it set up via a phase converter and a buddy of mine advised that I had purchase and install new heaters in the starter for it to work correctly. I followed his advice and it ran flawlessly.

Unfortunately it's been quite some time since I did that and no longer have that saw. It seems I had to cross reference the heater make/model to know what to purchase to run it on the 3ph 220 but I don't remember exactly how I did it.

Fortunately for us, we have Bob Vaughn who regularly visits this site and I feel certain that he can advise you of the process. More good news is that I remember the heaters being inexpensive as I purchased them off of eBay.

Good Luck with your project!

Jim

 

[bob vaughan]

It sounds to me like the coil is rated for the higher voltage and a coil change is in order.

 

[bob vaughan]

Here's some photos.
The coil is right above the "CH" logo. Your starter looks like a standard early Cutler-Hammer. Worst case: you can probably fit another starter in that opening.

 

[Howie]

I had a Moak table saw once that had a dual voltage motor and when I bought it, it was set up for 440. I too had it set up via a phase converter and a buddy of mine advised that I had purchase and install new heaters in the starter for it to work correctly. I followed his advice and it ran flawlessly.

Unfortunately it's been quite some time since I did that and no longer have that saw. It seems I had to cross reference the heater make/model to know what to purchase to run it on the 3ph 220 but I don't remember exactly how I did it.

Fortunately for us, we have Bob Vaughn who regularly visits this site and I feel certain that he can advise you of the process. More good news is that I remember the heaters being inexpensive as I purchased them off of eBay.

Good Luck with your project!

Jim

Thanks Jim, coil swap out would be best case senario. Was up till 3am on the web down the starter rabbit hole, now have it in my head I may want to put in a soft starter. We'll see after I get some coffee down where my heads at then.

 

[Howie]

It sounds to me like the coil is rated for the higher voltage and a coil change is in order.

Hoping a swap out of some sort is possible, tearing into it in a bit.

 

[Howie]

Hoping a swap out of some sort is possible, tearing into it in a bit.

Here's some photos.
The coil is right above the "CH" logo. Your starter looks like a standard early Cutler-Hammer. Worst case: you can probably fit another starter in that opening.
View attachment 214478 View attachment 214479

Yep, was up till 3 am down the online rabbit hole, now I got soft starters in my head. lol

 

[Howie]

I had a Moak table saw once that had a dual voltage motor and when I bought it, it was set up for 440. I too had it set up via a phase converter and a buddy of mine advised that I had purchase and install new heaters in the starter for it to work correctly. I followed his advice and it ran flawlessly.

Unfortunately it's been quite some time since I did that and no longer have that saw. It seems I had to cross reference the heater make/model to know what to purchase to run it on the 3ph 220 but I don't remember exactly how I did it.

Fortunately for us, we have Bob Vaughn who regularly visits this site and I feel certain that he can advise you of the process. More good news is that I remember the heaters being inexpensive as I purchased them off of eBay.

Good Luck with your project!

Jim

In your Moak swap when you say "heaters" is that the coil(s)? Sorry noob at motor control.
Thanks

 

[bob vaughan]

 

[Howie]

View attachment 214491

Looks like I need to find both, thanks I'm on it.

 

[bob vaughan]

In case its hard to read, on the top of the coil in my photo is stamped:
208-220
60 CY
So that starter is good for 220 volts.

 

[Howie]

ok, 1st pic. lower left and 3rd pic. is of the thermal spring(s) you changed correct? 2nd pic the coil # reads 40v60c (top) 464-3 (bottom) so it takes 40v to energize, correct.
Your coil looks to be same demintions so thats good. Spring #is H1271
TY
Tracy

 

[Charles Lent]

The coil needs to be the correct voltage for the voltage of the remote push button start-stop circuit. There may be a transformer somewhere that the control circuit that the voltage is derived from, or it may be the new line voltage entering the motor starter, if no remote start-stop.

The heaters are small pieces in the outer two phase lines as they pass down below the starter contacts. They are kind-of a circuit breaker element. The size will be stamped on them. You will need to replace these when you change the motor to run on a different voltage. Look at the motor tag to find the max load ampere rating at the voltage that the motor will be running on for the correct size.

It IS NOT a good idea to wire this contactor in between your solid state phase converter and your motor. It should be located before the phase converter. Opening the circuit between the phase converter and the motor can damage the phase converter.

Charley

 

[Howie]

The coil needs to be the correct voltage for the voltage of the remote push button start-stop circuit. There may be a transformer somewhere that the control circuit that the voltage is derived from, or it may be the new line voltage entering the motor starter, if no remote start-stop.

The heaters are small pieces in the outer two phase lines as they pass down below the starter contacts. They are kind-of a circuit breaker element. The size will be stamped on them. You will need to replace these when you change the motor to run on a different voltage. Look at the motor tag to find the max load ampere rating at the voltage that the motor will be running on for the correct size.

It IS NOT a good idea to wire this contactor in between your solid state phase converter and your motor. It should be located before the phase converter. Opening the circuit between the phase converter and the motor can damage the phase converter.

Charley

TY Charlie
I'm running a Rotary Phase converter. There was a small transformer mounted on the planer that has been eliminated from the circuit and motors both switched to low voltage 220. The pic shows the thermal protection components of the starter, the thermal elements lower left unless I'm mistaken. I am thinking compatible 220 60 Hz coil and thermal elements swap into starter. Having trouble determining / finding correct thermal elements. Are the elements rated by motor amps? The ones I am finding online only have part # not what they are rated at.

 

[bob vaughan]

There was a small transformer mounted on the planer that has been eliminated from the circuit and motors both switched to low voltage 220.

That explains the 40 volt coil. That transformer steps down the voltage to 40 volts. That's an expensive starter upgrade even today. Low voltage at the controls rather than full voltage. That transformer should have some taps on it that indicates the voltage it takes. It often is that one of the three legs of three phase power is all that goes through the transformer. That transformer is crucial for the correct operating of the starter.

 

[Howie]

That explains the 40 volt coil. That transformer steps down the voltage to 40 volts. That's an expensive starter upgrade even today. Low voltage at the controls rather than full voltage. That transformer should have some taps on it that indicates the voltage it takes. It often is that one of the three legs of three phase power is all that goes through the transformer. That transformer is crucial for the correct operating of the starter.

If just the coil and thermals swap less then $100.. I am a noob a motor control, what am I missing? Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Howie]

That explains the 40 volt coil. That transformer steps down the voltage to 40 volts. That's an expensive starter upgrade even today. Low voltage at the controls rather than full voltage. That transformer should have some taps on it that indicates the voltage it takes. It often is that one of the three legs of three phase power is all that goes through the transformer. That transformer is crucial for the correct operating of the starter.

Transformer was 240 primary 480 secondary. If nothing else a new starter may be in the works. Transformer pic. w/can for scale.

 

[bob vaughan]

Transformer was 240 primary 480 secondary. If nothing else a new starter may be in the works. Transformer pic. w/can for scale.

That's a good size transformer. Chances are you could feed your phase converter into that and all will be well.
The starter coil transformer will be about the size of a cheap doorbell transformer or smaller. Operating the coil takes minimum amperage.
The heaters you now have are rated at about 10 amps. The motors you should have are a 7.5 HP main and 1.5 HP drive train. At 440 volts, those heaters would be about right if not a little light.

 

[Howie]

That's a good size transformer. Chances are you could feed your phase converter into that and all will be well.
The starter coil transformer will be about the size of a cheap doorbell transformer or smaller. Operating the coil takes minimum amperage.
The heaters you now have are rated at about 10 amps. The motors you should have are a 7.5 HP main and 1.5 HP drive train. At 440 volts, those heaters would be about right if not a little light.

Jesus, never thought of that. The disconnect had a big 480 volt sticker on it and I had it in my head from the begining to get rid of "factory power". So change the motors back to 440 run my 220 3ph though the transformer. Bob you are a certified missile man.

 

[bob vaughan]

If it blows up, keep your opinions on my advice to yourself