M
McRabbet
View attachment WR Ltr0001_Part1.pdfView attachment WR Ltr0001_Part2.pdfFor the record, I copied the email dialog and the letter from Wilson & Ratledge here per the suggestion of Dennis Reynolds.
From: rrpayne [mailto:rrpayne@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 8:34 AM
To: 'Dennis Reynolds'; 'drobinsonster@gmail.com'
Cc: 'fyrcaptn@yahoo.com'; 'barbara4man@gmail.com'; 'cskipper_1023@msn.com'; 'tpardue@carolina.rr.com'; 'wtrentmason@gmail.com'; 'Jscharle@nc.rr.com'
Subject: RE: Letter from Wilson & Ratledge
Dennis, you make some good points and I’ll ask Trent to pull these emails into a document to go into the corporate downloads. For the record, I initiated this as email because I knew we would need input from Doug at a minimum and now Joe (neither of whom can see BoD forum any longer), but also because we cannot attach files to PM’s and that precluded using that form of dialog. Perhaps attachments should be enabled for BoD and Admin level folks so this doesn’t occur into the future.
As for liability insurance, I agree and we need more quotations that the one I got in January (hint, hint)!
Rob
From: Dennis Reynolds [mailto:gotcha6@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 4:57 AM
To: rrpayne@bellsouth.net; drobinsonster@gmail.com
Cc: fyrcaptn@yahoo.com; barbara4man@gmail.com; cskipper_1023@msn.com; tpardue@carolina.rr.com; wtrentmason@gmail.com; Jscharle@nc.rr.com
Subject: Re: Letter from Wilson & Ratledge
Heretofore I have had no comment on this issue. I believe the proper approach is being taken to resolving the issue.
I do, however, have an issue with using email instead of PMs to discuss it. I fear that our successors may not have access to the information we gather or the thoughts we express to achieve our conclusions. I must ask if the former BOD members in this discussion had such conversations during their tenure off site, and if they feel the lack of discussion and documentation available on this and other issues is a result of those discussions?
Although there is no fear that this issue will ultimately be settled, I need not remind any BOD member that we are without Liability insurance, and therefore, may all be held personally liable for this bill should it not be resolved.
Dennis Reynolds
-----Original Message-----
From: rrpayne <rrpayne@bellsouth.net>
To: 'Douglas Robinson' <drobinsonster@gmail.com>
Cc: 'Andrew Henderson - CaptnA' <fyrcaptn@yahoo.com>; 'Barbara Forman' <barbara4man@gmail.com>; 'Cathy Skipper' <cskipper_1023@msn.com>; 'Dennis Reynolds' <Gotcha6@aol.com>; 'Tracy Pardue' <tpardue@carolina.rr.com>; 'Trent Mason' <wtrentmason@gmail.com>; 'Joe Scharle' <Jscharle@nc.rr.com>
Sent: Tue, Mar 6, 2012 12:22 pm
Subject: RE: Letter from Wilson & Ratledge
So at this point, it appears that we need to pin down the date that W&R told Doug the amount of their bill – did they send a detailed invoice or not? I could send them a formal request for a copy of their invoice for the initial work (even if Doug does have a copy of what they sent, it might be a good strategy to see if the documents agreed). Doug, have you checked to see if there is any documentation from them? For the current BoD members, I have attached a copy of the minutes from the 1/25/2010 meeting that Joe referenced – not much detail there.
Rob
From: Joe Scharle [mailto:Jscharle@nc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 8:16 AM
To: rrpayne
Cc: Douglas Robinson; Andrew Henderson - CaptnA; Barbara Forman; Cathy Skipper; Dennis Reynolds; Payne Rob; Tracy Pardue; Trent Mason
Subject: Re: Letter from Wilson & Ratledge
From: rrpayne
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 7:23 AM
To: Joseph Scharle
Cc: Douglas Robinson ; Andrew Henderson - CaptnA ; Barbara Forman ; Cathy Skipper ; Dennis Reynolds ; Payne Rob ; Tracy Pardue ; Trent Mason
Subject: FW: Letter from Wilson & Ratledge
Wow...what a deal!
I never received a detailed invoice from the firm. In fact, the only directive I received was from Doug during a board conference call that some of you may recall, to pay them the $943.54 as shown.
I’m available for a conference call if needed... Joe
Joe,
I am passing this recent dialogue on to you to seek your input on the recent letter I received from Wilson & Ratledge (attached) concerning their work to assist NCWW in obtaining IRS non-profit status. As you can see from the letter, they are adding three time the amount we paid for their service (check 1014 dated 2/8/2011 as referenced on page 3 of their attachment). We certainly question this amount of effort and find it very suspect. To your knowledge, did we receive an invoice letter for that bill? Do you recall any conversations with Doug or any W&R reps? We would like to get as many facts together before we respond and any input you can provide would be helpful.
Thanks.
Rob
From: rrpayne [mailto:rrpayne@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 11:34 AM
To: 'Douglas Robinson'
Cc: 'Andrew Henderson - CaptnA'; 'Barbara Forman'; 'Cathy Skipper'; 'Dennis Reynolds'; 'Tracy Pardue'; 'Trent Mason'
Subject: RE: Letter from Wilson & Ratledge
Doug,
There is no explanation for their delay in the letter other than “various billing changes here internally”. She did not relate any reasons in our November conversation either.
Thanks for your critical feedback on this. I was quite surprised to get the call last November and then to get this letter nearly five months later takes the cake. We need to await Barbara’s research (and maybe a note to Joe Scharle if necessary) before we take action. At this point, I can see paying only the actual costs of $73.77. It is clear they mismanaged this effort – my favorite dichotomy in the bill is the Long Distance charge of $0.50 while a phone call to the IRS Specialist was billed at $210!
Bottom line is someone mismanaged this thing and they are trying to make it appear bona fide! They then have the gall to give us a deadline of less than a month to pay it!
Rob
From: Douglas Robinson [mailto:drobinsonster@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 9:12 AM
To: rrpayne
Cc: Andrew Henderson - CaptnA; Barbara Forman; Cathy Skipper; Dennis Reynolds; Tracy Pardue; Trent Mason
Subject: Re: Letter from Wilson & Ratledge
I am very confused by the letter from Wilson & Ratledge. It was my understanding that they had been paid quite awhile ago.
First, I recommend that the treasurer check the books to see what we paid them and when.
Second going through their itemization, I have serious doubts. We hired this firm because of their expertise in filing non-profit applications. Therefore this should not have taken much of their time. If fact the changes to our initial aopplication were done by ME. This bill seems to cover the work done post our initial rejection by the IRS. The changes that were made were minor and in most cases simply rewording portions and making clarifications. I provided the input that went into the changes that were made.
The bill seems excessive considering that I put in the substance of the response and they typed the changes and filled of the forms, which I then estopped by to sign.
What is their explkanation for the delay in sending this bill?
Doug
.
On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 9:54 PM, rrpayne <rrpayne@bellsouth.net> wrote:
I received the attached letter today in the mail (which I scanned to get to you all quickly), some four months after getting a call from Ms. Bennett and 13 months after they completed the work for filing the Non-profit status for North Carolina Woodworker, Inc. with the IRS. Frankly, I think it is unbelievable that they have taken this long to send us a bill for over $3,000 for their services, on top of a prior billing of $943.54 that was paid promptly upon completion of their work (I do not know when they invoiced NCWWI nor the content of their work in this payment). I have included Doug Robinson on this email since he is the only person who would have knowledge of any this work.
Some items stand out: (1) No hours of effort are detailed; (2) Entries for Ms. Bennett (LWB) for 12/06/10, 12/14/10, 12/17/10, 12/20/10, 12/21/10 and 1212/30/10 all appear excessive (include $367.50 in telephone call charges); (3) Entries for MAL on 12/10/10, 12/30/10, 01/03/11, 01/07/11, 01/31/11, 01/02/11 and 02/04/11 seem more reasonable charges; (4) Entries for TJW lack definition of actual effort.
To be honest, I am quite skeptical of the validity of their enumeration; when they offer to accept $2,000 plus costs of $73.77, I become less confident. There is no reasonable excuse for the billing delay of the first nine months from completion of the work to any contact with us nor the final four since her conversation. This is not very professional on their part.
I look to everyone’s comments.
Rob
Robert R. Payne, President
North Carolina Woodworkers, Inc.
70 Hounds Chase Drive
Hendersonville, NC 28791
(828)692-1426
(919)210-5914 (Cell)
rrpayne@bellsouth.net
From: rrpayne [mailto:rrpayne@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 8:34 AM
To: 'Dennis Reynolds'; 'drobinsonster@gmail.com'
Cc: 'fyrcaptn@yahoo.com'; 'barbara4man@gmail.com'; 'cskipper_1023@msn.com'; 'tpardue@carolina.rr.com'; 'wtrentmason@gmail.com'; 'Jscharle@nc.rr.com'
Subject: RE: Letter from Wilson & Ratledge
Dennis, you make some good points and I’ll ask Trent to pull these emails into a document to go into the corporate downloads. For the record, I initiated this as email because I knew we would need input from Doug at a minimum and now Joe (neither of whom can see BoD forum any longer), but also because we cannot attach files to PM’s and that precluded using that form of dialog. Perhaps attachments should be enabled for BoD and Admin level folks so this doesn’t occur into the future.
As for liability insurance, I agree and we need more quotations that the one I got in January (hint, hint)!
Rob
From: Dennis Reynolds [mailto:gotcha6@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 4:57 AM
To: rrpayne@bellsouth.net; drobinsonster@gmail.com
Cc: fyrcaptn@yahoo.com; barbara4man@gmail.com; cskipper_1023@msn.com; tpardue@carolina.rr.com; wtrentmason@gmail.com; Jscharle@nc.rr.com
Subject: Re: Letter from Wilson & Ratledge
Heretofore I have had no comment on this issue. I believe the proper approach is being taken to resolving the issue.
I do, however, have an issue with using email instead of PMs to discuss it. I fear that our successors may not have access to the information we gather or the thoughts we express to achieve our conclusions. I must ask if the former BOD members in this discussion had such conversations during their tenure off site, and if they feel the lack of discussion and documentation available on this and other issues is a result of those discussions?
Although there is no fear that this issue will ultimately be settled, I need not remind any BOD member that we are without Liability insurance, and therefore, may all be held personally liable for this bill should it not be resolved.
Dennis Reynolds
-----Original Message-----
From: rrpayne <rrpayne@bellsouth.net>
To: 'Douglas Robinson' <drobinsonster@gmail.com>
Cc: 'Andrew Henderson - CaptnA' <fyrcaptn@yahoo.com>; 'Barbara Forman' <barbara4man@gmail.com>; 'Cathy Skipper' <cskipper_1023@msn.com>; 'Dennis Reynolds' <Gotcha6@aol.com>; 'Tracy Pardue' <tpardue@carolina.rr.com>; 'Trent Mason' <wtrentmason@gmail.com>; 'Joe Scharle' <Jscharle@nc.rr.com>
Sent: Tue, Mar 6, 2012 12:22 pm
Subject: RE: Letter from Wilson & Ratledge
So at this point, it appears that we need to pin down the date that W&R told Doug the amount of their bill – did they send a detailed invoice or not? I could send them a formal request for a copy of their invoice for the initial work (even if Doug does have a copy of what they sent, it might be a good strategy to see if the documents agreed). Doug, have you checked to see if there is any documentation from them? For the current BoD members, I have attached a copy of the minutes from the 1/25/2010 meeting that Joe referenced – not much detail there.
Rob
From: Joe Scharle [mailto:Jscharle@nc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 8:16 AM
To: rrpayne
Cc: Douglas Robinson; Andrew Henderson - CaptnA; Barbara Forman; Cathy Skipper; Dennis Reynolds; Payne Rob; Tracy Pardue; Trent Mason
Subject: Re: Letter from Wilson & Ratledge
From: rrpayne
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 7:23 AM
To: Joseph Scharle
Cc: Douglas Robinson ; Andrew Henderson - CaptnA ; Barbara Forman ; Cathy Skipper ; Dennis Reynolds ; Payne Rob ; Tracy Pardue ; Trent Mason
Subject: FW: Letter from Wilson & Ratledge
Wow...what a deal!
I never received a detailed invoice from the firm. In fact, the only directive I received was from Doug during a board conference call that some of you may recall, to pay them the $943.54 as shown.
I’m available for a conference call if needed... Joe
Joe,
I am passing this recent dialogue on to you to seek your input on the recent letter I received from Wilson & Ratledge (attached) concerning their work to assist NCWW in obtaining IRS non-profit status. As you can see from the letter, they are adding three time the amount we paid for their service (check 1014 dated 2/8/2011 as referenced on page 3 of their attachment). We certainly question this amount of effort and find it very suspect. To your knowledge, did we receive an invoice letter for that bill? Do you recall any conversations with Doug or any W&R reps? We would like to get as many facts together before we respond and any input you can provide would be helpful.
Thanks.
Rob
From: rrpayne [mailto:rrpayne@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 11:34 AM
To: 'Douglas Robinson'
Cc: 'Andrew Henderson - CaptnA'; 'Barbara Forman'; 'Cathy Skipper'; 'Dennis Reynolds'; 'Tracy Pardue'; 'Trent Mason'
Subject: RE: Letter from Wilson & Ratledge
Doug,
There is no explanation for their delay in the letter other than “various billing changes here internally”. She did not relate any reasons in our November conversation either.
Thanks for your critical feedback on this. I was quite surprised to get the call last November and then to get this letter nearly five months later takes the cake. We need to await Barbara’s research (and maybe a note to Joe Scharle if necessary) before we take action. At this point, I can see paying only the actual costs of $73.77. It is clear they mismanaged this effort – my favorite dichotomy in the bill is the Long Distance charge of $0.50 while a phone call to the IRS Specialist was billed at $210!
Bottom line is someone mismanaged this thing and they are trying to make it appear bona fide! They then have the gall to give us a deadline of less than a month to pay it!
Rob
From: Douglas Robinson [mailto:drobinsonster@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 9:12 AM
To: rrpayne
Cc: Andrew Henderson - CaptnA; Barbara Forman; Cathy Skipper; Dennis Reynolds; Tracy Pardue; Trent Mason
Subject: Re: Letter from Wilson & Ratledge
I am very confused by the letter from Wilson & Ratledge. It was my understanding that they had been paid quite awhile ago.
First, I recommend that the treasurer check the books to see what we paid them and when.
Second going through their itemization, I have serious doubts. We hired this firm because of their expertise in filing non-profit applications. Therefore this should not have taken much of their time. If fact the changes to our initial aopplication were done by ME. This bill seems to cover the work done post our initial rejection by the IRS. The changes that were made were minor and in most cases simply rewording portions and making clarifications. I provided the input that went into the changes that were made.
The bill seems excessive considering that I put in the substance of the response and they typed the changes and filled of the forms, which I then estopped by to sign.
What is their explkanation for the delay in sending this bill?
Doug
.
On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 9:54 PM, rrpayne <rrpayne@bellsouth.net> wrote:
I received the attached letter today in the mail (which I scanned to get to you all quickly), some four months after getting a call from Ms. Bennett and 13 months after they completed the work for filing the Non-profit status for North Carolina Woodworker, Inc. with the IRS. Frankly, I think it is unbelievable that they have taken this long to send us a bill for over $3,000 for their services, on top of a prior billing of $943.54 that was paid promptly upon completion of their work (I do not know when they invoiced NCWWI nor the content of their work in this payment). I have included Doug Robinson on this email since he is the only person who would have knowledge of any this work.
Some items stand out: (1) No hours of effort are detailed; (2) Entries for Ms. Bennett (LWB) for 12/06/10, 12/14/10, 12/17/10, 12/20/10, 12/21/10 and 1212/30/10 all appear excessive (include $367.50 in telephone call charges); (3) Entries for MAL on 12/10/10, 12/30/10, 01/03/11, 01/07/11, 01/31/11, 01/02/11 and 02/04/11 seem more reasonable charges; (4) Entries for TJW lack definition of actual effort.
To be honest, I am quite skeptical of the validity of their enumeration; when they offer to accept $2,000 plus costs of $73.77, I become less confident. There is no reasonable excuse for the billing delay of the first nine months from completion of the work to any contact with us nor the final four since her conversation. This is not very professional on their part.
I look to everyone’s comments.
Rob
Robert R. Payne, President
North Carolina Woodworkers, Inc.
70 Hounds Chase Drive
Hendersonville, NC 28791
(828)692-1426
(919)210-5914 (Cell)
rrpayne@bellsouth.net
