Need Advice Nightstand project question

[Westpacx3]

I'm planning to make 2 of these from cherry in the near future. One of my hold ups is how to mount, attach this lower shelf. My smaller one that I built last year had an appron,I think that's what its called, under the front and back and I used a motive and tenon to fit it. This time I prefer not to have that appron. I want the cleaner look.

How would you connect the shelf to the table legs in the left photo. The right photo is my first real build other than boxes and frames.

Thanks

 

[John Jimenez]

You could notch the legs at 45 degrees to give yourself another surface for glue….but you could also use pocket hole screws underneath and some wood glue. Whether you notch the legs or not, I would still use pocket hole screws. If you didn’t want to use pocket hole screws, you could use a thick dowel and notch the shelf underneath. Good luck and let us know what you decide to do.

 

[Westpacx3]

You could notch the legs at 45 degrees to give yourself another surface for glue….but you could also use pocket hole screws underneath and some wood glue. Whether you notch the legs or not, I would still use pocket hole screws. If you didn’t want to use pocket hole screws, you could use a thick dowel and notch the shelf underneath. Good luck and let us know what you decide to do.

Thanks, the dowel thought had entered my mind. Im not opposed to pocket screws but I wonder at times what the woodworking purist would do. It reminds me of what the purist fly tying fly fisherman thing of spin casters sometimes. Funny. Just get in the river and enjoy the ride...

 

[John Jimenez]

Thanks, the dowel thought had entered my mind. Im not opposed to pocket screws but I wonder at times what the woodworking purist would do. It reminds me of what the purist fly tying fly fisherman thing of spin casters sometimes. Funny. Just get in the river and enjoy the ride...

Pocket hole screws have been used a long time in quality furniture making….long before there was the Kreg jig. I’d also factor in what forces are most likely to be applied to the shelf. Will it be downward force due to heavy books, in which case the shear strength of a good dowel should be stronger than a pocket hole screw….if you are more concerned about racking force due to longer legs then maybe pocket hole screws would be better at countering those racking forces. IMHO.

 

[Westpacx3]

Pocket hole screws have been used a long time in quality furniture making….long before there was the Kreg jig. I’d also factor in what forces are most likely to be applied to the shelf. Will it be downward force due to heavy books, in which case the shear strength of a good dowel should be stronger than a pocket hole screw….if you are more concerned about racking force due to longer legs then maybe pocket hole screws would be better at countering those racking forces. IMHO.

That's true on the screws. Guess im thw snob. Lol

If I used a dowel would you use cherry to match or oak or other hard wood. I still need to draw this up and decide the leg width. Probably need to consult a design book. The over all size has been determined by the wall space available and the height of our bed..

Thanks

 

[Jack A.]

This seems relevant...

Adding a shelf to a table - FineWoodworking

Learn how to use dowels to attach a shelf to a table. It’s a rock-solid method that’s easy to execute, invisible, and super-strong.

www.finewoodworking.com

 

[Canuck]

I been known to cheat a wee bit by using these on a low shelf....
Amazon.com

(Applied to the shelf corners from underneath)

 

[John Jimenez]

That's true on the screws. Guess im thw snob. Lol

If I used a dowel would you use cherry to match or oak or other hard wood. I still need to draw this up and decide the leg width. Probably need to consult a design book. The over all size has been determined by the wall space available and the height of our bed..

Thanks

You wouldn’t need to use a dowel to match because it wouldn’t be seen…if you can make your own dowels and you had scrap from the project then that would be cool but don’t think it matters too much. You could use a dowel jig and set it up so that the dowel is centered on the shelf side…which means the shelf needs to be installed when the legs are secured to the rest of the shelf. You could also notch the shelf so that you could put the shelf on after the legs have been secured to the shelf top. Hope that makes sense. Also, meant to mention that I would not be critical of yourself about using apron for the shelf on the previous nightstand you did…nothing wrong with that design either. Looking forward to seeing what you decide to do.

 

[Westpacx3]

You wouldn’t need to use a dowel to match because it wouldn’t be seen…if you can make your own dowels and you had scrap from the project then that would be cool but don’t think it matters too much. You could use a dowel jig and set it up so that the dowel is centered on the shelf side…which means the shelf needs to be installed when the legs are secured to the rest of the shelf. You could also notch the shelf so that you could put the shelf on after the legs have been secured to the shelf top. Hope that makes sense. Also, meant to mention that I would not be critical of yourself about using apron for the shelf on the previous nightstand you did…nothing wrong with that design either. Looking forward to seeing what you decide to do.

That makes sense. Ill make an effort to post photo progress when I start. Probably start in a few months. Cedar shutters are next on the list..

Thanks

 

[Westpacx3]

I been known to cheat a wee bit by using these on a low shelf....
Amazon.com

(Applied to the shelf corners from underneath)

I like that idea. Just cut a recess.

Thanks

 

[Westpacx3]

This seems relevant...

Adding a shelf to a table - FineWoodworking

Learn how to use dowels to attach a shelf to a table. It’s a rock-solid method that’s easy to execute, invisible, and super-strong.

www.finewoodworking.com

Does look promising as well.

Thank you

 

[Henry W]

Does look promising as well.

Thank you

And since the "dowel markers" transfer the exact location, your original holes don't even need a jig to locate them, just layout and drill. Do recognize that once you have drilled and located holes for dowels that keeping the shelf in the same orientation (top/bottom and front/back) and the legs in the same spots is important to minimize subtle differences in the hole locations.

You can even do this - with a few extra steps, without specific 'dowel markers.'
1) Locate the hole center and drill a SMALL hole, sized to hold a small nail (might need to trim the head off if it too large). Drill hole to a depth such that the nail inserted in the hole protrudes approx 2-3 mm or 1/8"?). Guessing at that protrusion length
2) Insert nail into hole 'headfirst.'
3) Use same alignment technique shown in video.
4) Once locations are transferred, use a brad-point drill bit to precisely locate the holes. Drill bit obviously sized to the dowels you plan to use.

Hope that helps.

And Wayne's angle bracket suggestion would easily work too, and barely noticeable, especially if mortised into the back side of the front legs and the inside of the back legs. Of course, I hate mortising anything, so I'd be more likely to use the dowel technique.