Need Help...Electrical problem with Grizzly 20" planer

llucas

luke
Senior User
I've had a Grizzly 1033x planer for about 18 months now...was cleaning and adjusting rollers etc.
Tried to run a test piece and got a white flash out of the wall receptacle and machine stopped.
Full disclaimer, I know little about electricity, but I do know that is not good.

Unplugged unit, checked circuit breaker (50 amp)...it was not tripped.
Checked belt and cutter head rotation...all seemed fine.
Took off cover to control box (some time back the OFF twist button which lets you power up the unit had been difficult to turn,)...didn't see any irregularities there.
So Maybe you electrical geniuses can solve the puzzle...PLEASE

Plugged unit back in wall outlet and ran a voltage detector over all lines.
From wall to magnetic switch inside unit had voltage
From Magnetic switch to control box outside machine had voltage
Inside control box all wires, black, white, blue, and brown had voltage
From magnetic switch to motor..NO voltage
I pushed the reset button on magnetic switch (didn't feel like it stayed in after I did that)
Reassemble everything...got a power light on the control box...hit ON button and BAM white sparks out of the wall receptacle.
Is this just a problem with the Control Box (ON/Off switch)?

What say ye, ladies and gents?
 
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gmakra

New User
George
Look inside your receptacle since that's where the flash is coming from. Chances are you have a loose connection there
 

Gotcha6

Dennis
Staff member
Corporate Member
Assuming the planer is 230 volts, IMO a 50 amp breaker is way oversized. You should have a breaker that is no larger than 125% of the amperage draw of the machine, and that's enough current for about an 8-9 HP motor, which I doubt you have. Not saying that's your problem, but it could be a BIGGER problem if the wires start to melt........................
 

McRabbet

Rob
Corporate Member
The manual for the 1033x says you need a 30 AMP breaker for the 5 HP motor (typical 5 HP motors draw 21-23 AMPS), so you definitely have too large a breaker AND an obvious short at your wall connection. The only reason your breaker might not trip is because the wire is fusing and dissipating the amperage so fast that it is breaking the circuit. A qualified electrician needs to check the wiring at the receptacle and change out the breaker to be matched to the wire size. IMHO, the circuit wiring should be 10 gauge to handle the expected load and it should be fed with a 30 AMP breaker (that's what I have for my ClearVue Cyclone for its 5 HP motor).
 

llucas

luke
Senior User
Thanks for the replies, fellows. And after a warm meal and time to re-think the events, it is clear I need to check the wiring inside the receptacle.
Re. the 50 AMP circuit...well the story gets a little complicated, but I'll try to keep it simple.
It is a 5hp motor and the machine specs call for a 30 amp circuit...which is just what I did when I first bought the unit, appropriate wire size etc.
BUT, it kept tripping the 30 amp breaker. Multiple long phone call with Grizzly, with tracing at their direction on all parts of the machine failed to find the problem...I checked the amps on start-up ( in the short second prior to breaker tripping) and it was drawing well over 100 AMPS! Grizzly said they had been having similar problems with other 5hp motors and suggested I return the machine for a free replacement. The new machine arrive and I had an exact repeat of the problem. Grizzly then suggested that I could safely run the machine on a 50amp circuit ( as the motor had built-in protection) to prevent overload damage to the motor. I had an extra circuit that I previously ran to a welder and scavenged that for the planer. And that is where I am now. No problems with this machine for the past 18 months.
I will check the connections inside the receptacle tomorrow.
And I did convince myself that Grizzly tech support was right...big wire on big breaker was safe. Certainly better than 30 amp circuit which was apparently overloaded by this machine.
AND I do not consider any comments as criticism, so please feel free to edumacate me.
Other thoughts? If the receptacle turns out to be ok, what then.

Thanks
 

Phil S

Phil Soper
Staff member
Corporate Member
I suspect the blades of the plug are not making good contact inside the receptacle. a new receptacle would be a good start. You may need a new plug also. i would change both
 

MarkE

Mark
Corporate Member
I have the same machine, have had it for about the same amount of time, 18 months or so. It has been used on a 30 amp circuit since first installed with no problem. If yours was drawing in excess of 50 amps, or up to 100 as your testing showed, there is something wrong with the machine. That may have nothing to do with the flash you are seeing, probably doesn't, but a 5 hp motor should not ever require 100 amps, even at startup.
 

Oka

Casey
Corporate Member
Couple of things,

1st No motor should ever pull more than its rated capacity. 22-25 amps is typical. As someone already mentioned, the Start is roughly 27% greater than its rating the Starting spike, so a 10 amp rated motor will draw 12.7 amp when turned on for a 1/2 sec +/-.
Here is a video link to help you understand a 220 motor -

The troubleshooting I would do, is this:

Check the load voltage coming to the connection outlet box, verify you have #10 wire. If that is ok, then check the load voltage when it is coming to the motor. Based on your comments it appears you confirmed this is ok. If you do suspect the outlet to be a possible issue, you could just wire directly in to the outlet box to the line voltage.

Disconnect the power and check to the motor, winding short or winding imbalance (windings are wrong for the motor, just saying gotta check. Then check all the other minor possible short locations, see the video it explains enough to do this.

My guess the motor is mis-made causing it to fail. Might request from grizzly the next size up and beat them up to supply since this is a known problem. I would, especially if you search and discover the 7.5 hp motors are no problem types.

220 motors are pretty straight forward, so you should be able to figure this out with a voltmeter and amp meter
 

gmakra

New User
George
Starting a electric motor can be 7 times the FLA or full load amps. So to see a momentary spike of over a 100 is nothing to worry about. A 50 amp breaker is a little large but not enough to worry about as long as you don't put an additional heavy load on it.

But seeing that you have arc flash in junction box and the breaker doesn't trip I would suspect you don't have a good ground either.
 

bowman

Board of Directors, Webmaster
Neal
Staff member
Corporate Member
you said the breaker is a 50A, what is the receptacle rated as? possible the constant high current may have melted something inside the receptacle.
 

llucas

luke
Senior User
Boy! You guys are great! I've got some homework to do now.
Neal, the receptacle and plug are rated at 50 A.
Gonna take a look inside both the receptacle and plug today.
To be continued.
 

Gofor

Mark
Corporate Member
One thing not said so far: If you have a 30A motor and its pulling 50A, it could be either a short in the machine, or something jamming the blades/cutter head or rollers causing it to go to max amps. While you are diagnosing it, check to make sure they are not jammed by a bolt or other bit of debris that has found its way into the works during the cleaning process.
 

Roy G

Roy
Senior User
Mark makes a good suggestion for you to make sure nothing is jammed in the machine. You said you were adjusting rollers and possibly something got in the wrong place.

An electric motor will draw increased current under load. If the motor can't turn the machine over and the belts don't slip, it would keep trying and drawing increasing current until something failed. Any scorch marks in the receptacle?

Roy G
 

Rwe2156

DrBob
Senior User
If you got a white flash, that indicates a short somewhere. The breaker won't necessarily trip unless the short is bad enough.

The (non magnetic) switch on my drum sander quit so I've been pushing/pulling the plug into the receptacle until I get anew switch. Anyway, got a white flash the other day and it turned out to be a loose wire in the plug. My point is, I would start there.

Beyond that, you only have the switch and motor itself. My vote would be the switch. I don't know how to test a magnetic switch for a short.

Regarding the breaker, breakers protect the wires against overload, and trip on dead shorts. Motors usually have overload protection either built into the motor or the switch. Although 50A is over rated for 5HP you will be ok so long as the wire is the right size (#8 I believe).
 
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Phil S

Phil Soper
Staff member
Corporate Member
I am willing to take a look at this during a long weekday lunch. Just need a day and address
 

llucas

luke
Senior User
You guys are why I LOVE this site!!! and Phil, your offer to help is really appreciated, but you are now off the hook.
Update : taking all the above suggestions into account I started with the plug---small flash burn at the tip of one of the hots...it actually fell loose while examining it. No other detectable damage. I checked and tightened all wires and made sure nothing was touching anything it shouldn't and reassembled the plug. The unit fired right up repeatedly without a problem.
The old saying goes "When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras." Simple problem, simple solution.
Thanks again for all your help.
 

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