Lower Cabinet Construction: Integrated or separate toe kick platform?

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Durnik

New User
Bob
To all,

When constructing furniture/kitchen grade lower cabinets, do you prefer to use full side panels and cut out the recess for the toe kick (e.g. the side panels are a full 34.5" tall), or do you create a 4" frame you set and level on the floor and then attach the boxes to? Just wondering since I can see pluses and minuses for doing it either way. I've seen books/videos that use either method and looking for some insights from people with more experience. If you do the floor frame, how do you attach the boxes on top of it without any unsightly fasteners?

Also, the first set of cabinets I'd like to do is in the garage to create the workshop. For a garage, I'm thinking that plastic and tar paper on the floor, then pressure treated 'frame' set on top to prevent any water/moisture issues.

Thanks for any advice,

Bob
<aka Durnik>
 

JimD

Jim
Senior User
Bob,

I don't think the plastic and/or tar paper are necessary in the garage but the pressure treated is a good idea. Simple 2x4 frame of pressure treated would work well.

I like to use a separate base piece for kitchen and bath cabinets too. I'm not really worried about the ability to level the base versus the cabinet, both are easy enough to shim. I like the ability to let the cabinet overhang the base on the side as well as the front, I think it looks better. A separate base also helps minimize use of more expensive hardwood veneer plywood I usually use for the cabinet boxes. I also find it easier to assemble simple boxes than a cabinet with an integral toe kick area (but both are easy enough). I guess looks is the biggest reason.

I've made kitchen cabinets out of oak veneer plywood and melamine covered particle board and, for the garage, AC softwood plywood. In each case, I used through screws to screw the box to the base. They are sunk below the surface for the plywood cases and the hole plugged. If you are careful and align the grain and then sand the plug smooth, it isn't very visible. For the melamine, I used a matching plastic cap on the screw. My oak cabinets had similar plugged screws holding the cabinet together. Even on the outside we didn't find them to be an appearance issue. Inside the cabinet, this was even more obviously the case. I think a plugged screw hole is less noticeable than a nail hole with putty in it. But you could just use some brads or finish nails to hold the box to the base. The screws holding it to the wall would also prevent movement.
 

Canuck

Wayne
Corporate Member
Bob

When I did my shop/garage cabinets, I found that building a separate base for the cabinets made it easier to level the run of cabinets. (about 8' long) I just took the front and rear 8' x 4" boards, stood them on the edge, levelled with shims and scribed them to match the slope of the garage floor and ripped them. After assembling the base, it was almost perfectly level.


I then built each cabinet base, set them into position on the base, screwed each cabinet into one another through the sides and then put in 2 1/2" screws through the cabinet backs into the wall studs. They are just floating on the base. With the addition of the continuous run of counter top added, they are not moving around one little bit.

Here are a couple pictures.

100_4977.jpg



100_4986.jpg



100_5023.jpg


I too left the cabinet/base toe kick overhang on the ends to match the fronts.

Another consideration for why I went with the separate base for shop cabinets was that should there be a water problem on the floor, it wouldn't wick up through the cabinet sides.

Wayne
 

Skymaster

New User
Jack
ladder frame base scribed to floor is best way to do cabinets. Once your base is level and your cabinets square boxes everything goes together fast and is level and square without any further checking or effort, PLUS if working with Borg wood you can get 3 pcs out of each rip
 

Durnik

New User
Bob
Thanks all,

That helped a lot (and Canuck, appreciated the pictures). More and more to learn every day :)

Bob
<aka Durnik>
 

Rwe2156

DrBob
Senior User
Check out the system 32 method (aka Euro style or frameless). It is the most efficient way to go IMO. Adjustable feet make it easy to level cabinets. No scribing, shimming.

Any sheet material can be used (I used ds melamine). The boxes are butt jointed and screwed. You'll have to buy concealed hinges and learn to drill for them, but it's totally doable even without a drill press. Use door of your choice.

One great feature of no frame is you can have full length sliding drawers in the bottom -- very handy if storing routers. sanders, etc.

Check out "Building Frameless Kitchen Cabinets" by Danny Proulx.
 

JimD

Jim
Senior User
I believe the Kreg shelf pin jig is also 32mm spacing and set up to drill even the hinge plate screw holes. It would be a relatively cheap way to try a cabinet that way. Personally, I see it more for production shops with gang drills, however, because it involves drilling holes where you would be supporting a shelf - lots more holes than normally required.
 

Skymaster

New User
Jack
I believe the Kreg shelf pin jig is also 32mm spacing and set up to drill even the hinge plate screw holes. It would be a relatively cheap way to try a cabinet that way. Personally, I see it more for production shops with gang drills, however, because it involves drilling holes where you would be supporting a shelf - lots more holes than normally required.

Rockler has a jig system for both 32mm and "normal" it has drill bits specifically for this purpose. It will NOT drill for blum or "Euro" hinge spacing, there is a jig for that also which is also available from Rockler. There are others out there, Woodpecker also has a line boring jig.
 

JimD

Jim
Senior User
I have both the Rockler and Kreg shelf pin jigs and I like the Kreg better. It is very simple but well designed. If you put it flush against your work, it will drill the holes for the hinge.
 

tarheelz

Dave
Corporate Member
The concept of a separate toe kick platform strikes me as SO much better - functionally. The challenge (if it is one) is that as I look around kitchens, the aesthetic is always of an integrated lower cabinet. I'd like to tell myself that the separate platform would make a high end kitchen look "custom." Thoughts?
 

Skymaster

New User
Jack
The only aesthetic issue is on the open or visible end of the cabinet run; You will have a seam, there are workarounds to that, plus you have to remember to finish the end of that ladder base to match the cabinets. For installation it is a tad more work up front in the shop BUT at installation time virtually no problems. Ladder base over height,scribe to floor, screw it down and everything is plumb and level thereafter.
 

SubGuy

Administrator
Zach
In kitchens, I have always done integrated toe kick. But I do like the ladder when coming to a uneven floor.
 
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