Need Advice Looking for an Odies Oil alternative.

[JayMan72]

Well the title pretty much says it all.

I love(d) using Odies Oil. It was an easy finish that was fool proof if you understood how to use it.

As a turner I have started using it as a type of friction polish and it’s wonderful.

Unfortunately the Odies Oil company has decided to yet again raise their prices ($70 a jar now) to a point where it feels like greed at its finest.

So I am now looking for alternatives.

Does anyone have any suggestions for a similar product?

TIA
Jason

 

[Echd]

Ever tried osmo? I haven't priced it in a while but it used to be cheaper than odie's. They have a wide line.

 

[ChemE75]

Never used odies or any hard wax oil, so hard to suggest alternatives. Odies sds is nearly blank so no hints to the components, hard to know for sure. Guesses suggest it’s basically a modified tung oil with d-limonene (orange oil) as the primary solvent, possibly some other oils, and carnauba wax and/or a blend of waxes. Since these hard wax oil blends are the current rage, more than likely all are over hyped and over priced. I’ve used danish oils and similar tung/modified linseed blends for a long time since I like the natural look, satin finish, and easy enough to apply a carnauba wax after when desired. Not sure how the blended wax behaves vs post-oil application. For a glossy build up, I started using tru-oil which is like a varnish/oil blend wipe on finish that may be similar to odies without the wax. Will be interested to see what else is suggested.

 

[Westpacx3]

What wo

Never used odies or any hard wax oil, so hard to suggest alternatives. Odies sds is nearly blank so no hints to the components, hard to know for sure. Guesses suggest it’s basically a modified tung oil with d-limonene (orange oil) as the primary solvent, possibly some other oils, and carnauba wax and/or a blend of waxes. Since these hard wax oil blends are the current rage, more than likely all are over hyped and over priced. I’ve used danish oils and similar tung/modified linseed blends for a long time since I like the natural look, satin finish, and easy enough to apply a carnauba wax after when desired. Not sure how the blended wax behaves vs post-oil application. For a glossy build up, I started using tru-oil which is like a varnish/oil blend wipe on finish that may be similar to odies without the wax. Will be interested to see what else is suggested.

What would a tung oil/modified linseed oil be marked as or is that a blend you make?

 

[Mike Davis]

So, you are looking for a finish that is cheap or free, applies easily, dries instantly, builds a sheen in easily controllable degrees from flat to glossy, lasts forever, preserves the wood, is food safe, VOC free, non allergenic, enhances the esthetic of anything it touches, and improves the environment. No tradeoffs, no downsides, no compromises. Let me know when you find that.

 

[SabertoothBunny]

For a turning friction polishes, check out Doctor's Woodshop. The guy is a retired chemical engineer and has created some of the best polishes available for turners. I use the walnut oil on everything and Pens Plus on most items but there is a variety of finishes available for different uses of the turned piece such as food safe options. The friction polishes set quickly and the best part is that they aren't sticky or tacky when using like other brands. The pricing a 1/4 of Odies and 100% worth trying.

 

[SabertoothBunny]

So, you are looking for a finish that is cheap or free, applies easily, dries instantly, builds a sheen in easily controllable degrees from flat to glossy, lasts forever, preserves the wood, is food safe, VOC free, non allergenic, enhances the esthetic of anything it touches, and improves the environment. No tradeoffs, no downsides, no compromises. Let me know when you find that.

Check out Doctor's Woodshop finishes as that's is about as close as you're going to get from my experience.

 

[Wilsoncb]

But, you can just pass those costs onto the customer, right?

Oops, I thought you were Duke Energy.

 

[scsmith42]

Jay, are you familiar with Heritage Natural Finishes?

Pre the 2008 recession, a company called "Land Ark" made one of the most sought after finishes for timber frame structures. It was a proprietary blend of tung oil, linseed oil, pine rosin, beeswax and d-limonene mixed up in some type of catalyzed process.

Land Arc went bankrupt during the recession but their forumla was brought back by Heritage Natural Finishes, and they have a variety of products - primarily for timber and log construction. I've used their products for some heavy benches that we made for Duke University over 10 years ago, and they still look great. Have also used them for a timbeframe restaraunt structure in Falls Church VA that we milled.

Here is a link to the thread on the Duke Bench project.

https://ncwoodworker.net/forums/index.php?threads/an-interesting-project-that-we-recently-completed.61599/

Tom's estimating of the ingredients of Odie's oil reminded me of the Land Ark original finish, which is why I'm mentioning them.

https://heritagenaturalfinishes.com/

 

[Allan]

Check out Walrus Oils line of products. I have had good success with their Furniture Oil / Butter / Wax products. Used them on a desk too about 3-4 years ago and they are holding up well with daily use of that desk.

 

[wndopdlr]

I used Acks friction polish followed by his triple carnauba wax on project recently and was very pleased wih rhe outcome. I liked the results much better than Odie's and thought the application process was much easier and the cost much friendlier. I will be using Acks more often.

 

[JayMan72]

Jay, are you familiar with Heritage Natural Finishes?

Pre the 2008 recession, a company called "Land Ark" made one of the most sought after finishes for timber frame structures. It was a proprietary blend of tung oil, linseed oil, pine rosin, beeswax and d-limonene mixed up in some type of catalyzed process.

Land Arc went bankrupt during the recession but their forumla was brought back by Heritage Natural Finishes, and they have a variety of products - primarily for timber and log construction. I've used their products for some heavy benches that we made for Duke University over 10 years ago, and they still look great. Have also used them for a timbeframe restaraunt structure in Falls Church VA that we milled.

Here is a link to the thread on the Duke Bench project.

https://ncwoodworker.net/forums/index.php?threads/an-interesting-project-that-we-recently-completed.61599/

Tom's estimating of the ingredients of Odie's oil reminded me of the Land Ark original finish, which is why I'm mentioning them.

https://heritagenaturalfinishes.com/

Scott,

That sounds interesting. Do you happen to know which product Heritage sells that is similar to the stuff Land Ark was making? I went to their site and (as you mentioned) there are a bunch of things listed. The liquid wax looked interesting but I’m not sure that’s what you were referring to.

Thanks again.

 

[JayMan72]

So, you are looking for a finish that is cheap or free, applies easily, dries instantly, builds a sheen in easily controllable degrees from flat to glossy, lasts forever, preserves the wood, is food safe, VOC free, non allergenic, enhances the esthetic of anything it touches, and improves the environment. No tradeoffs, no downsides, no compromises. Let me know when you find that.

Mike,

I never said cheap or free.

All I was looking for was a less expensive alternative.

I know that increases in price happen. I expect it. However, when I first purchased it about 8 years ago it was under $40.

It’s now $70.

An increase that substantial in 8 years is just greedy and I refuse to support companies that continuously try to take advantage of their customers.

I love the product but that love is conditional on its perceived affordability.

 

[Mike Davis]

Mike,

I never said cheap or free.

All I was looking for was a less expensive alternative.

I know that increases in price happen. I expect it. However, when I first purchased it about 8 years ago it was under $40.

It’s now $70.

An increase that substantial in 8 years is just greedy and I refuse to support companies that continuously try to take advantage of their customers.

I love the product but that love is conditional on its perceived affordability.

I would never pay that much for a tiny jar of finish.

 

[ChemE75]

What wo

What would a tung oil/modified linseed oil be marked as or is that a blend you make?

I have not yet made my own since I’ve had good results with affordable options. Generally I’ve used Watco. Kind of pushed one of my buttons here so a bit of what I recall on various oil finish components - in the event you decide to try a diy blend:
Watco was originally based on a tung/linseed blend, but evolved since acquisition by rust-oleum. Its attraction was using solvents to aid in deep penetration and speed curing vs the typical tung or blo finish. Now looks to be linseed and soybean oils and a rosin based component. It does not do well for water protection, I generally use it for indoor furniture. I’ve used Tru-oil, made for gun/rifle wood parts so has some water protection, it does tend to build a gloss finish and is not cheap - based on linseed oil and a proprietary modified oil which could be based on tung or an alkyd. These blends could be DIY since they are not complex - basically 3-4 components. Stoddard solvent is commonly used, it’s basically a more refined mineral spirits, “odorless” paint thinner is close. Some blends use a small bit of naphtha to aid penetration. Fwiw, alkyds are based on polyesters - simply made from fatty acids - if you’ve had a blood test for lipids, you know one, triglycerides - and polyols, which are alcohols. We’ve all heard of methyl, ethyl, isopropyl, well there are a lot more alcohols. Real varnishes, not PU, are alkyd and/or rosin based so make a good base for DIY blends. Tried&True may be a good base. Sherwin-Williams Minwax has an updated varnish based on linseed oil and an alkyd - tough and fast drying. The difficult part of diy’ing is that raw materials, other than boiled linseed oil, tung oil and solvents, are generally limited to commercial products that are already some sort of blend.

Odies and similar incorporate wax - these hard wax oil blends I have not yet used since I’m good with Danish oil. I’m sure the expense of these hard wax oil blends has in part been due to the work figuring out how to get the wax locked in as the oil cures, doubt it’s as simple as adding some wax to an oil blend. Waxes on their own do not form a durable cured finish. In a broad sense, waxes are long chain molecules that do not penetrate deeply so would normally remain near the surface. Simply buffing on a wax after the oil curing leaves the wax in a thin surface layer that will wear off relatively quickly. These hard wax oil blends improved the wax layer to be locked in - the waxes remain near the surface but tightly held in place so less prone to wear. Odies goes a bit further to use all plant based ingredients so cost is higher. But do you need all plant based? Sounds like others suggested some good options.

 

[ChemE75]

Wil

Jay, are you familiar with Heritage Natural Finishes?

Pre the 2008 recession, a company called "Land Ark" made one of the most sought after finishes for timber frame structures. It was a proprietary blend of tung oil, linseed oil, pine rosin, beeswax and d-limonene mixed up in some type of catalyzed process.

Land Arc went bankrupt during the recession but their forumla was brought back by Heritage Natural Finishes, and they have a variety of products - primarily for timber and log construction. I've used their products for some heavy benches that we made for Duke University over 10 years ago, and they still look great. Have also used them for a timbeframe restaraunt structure in Falls Church VA that we milled.

Here is a link to the thread on the Duke Bench project.

https://ncwoodworker.net/forums/index.php?threads/an-interesting-project-that-we-recently-completed.61599/

Tom's estimating of the ingredients of Odie's oil reminded me of the Land Ark original finish, which is why I'm mentioning them.

https://heritagenaturalfinishes.com/

l’ll check them out. I’ve been basically an old school oil finish user. Mostly been happy with Watco. But I haven’t bought any in a long time due to my lost decade in FL. So my aging cans are probably pretty well oxidized by now so will be trying the new stuff in near future. I read some on the hard wax oil blends and it’s interesting if you need the water protection of the wax. I thought the wax would simply migrate and sit on the surface. But appears that they figured out blends that hold the wax within the upper layers of the curing oil. Sort of sounds similar to how liquids forming crystalline solids can trap contaminants within the crystalline structure. It’s not chemically bonded, just trapped within the polymerized oil matrix.

 

[scsmith42]

Scott,

That sounds interesting. Do you happen to know which product Heritage sells that is similar to the stuff Land Ark was making? I went to their site and (as you mentioned) there are a bunch of things listed. The liquid wax looked interesting but I’m not sure that’s what you were referring to.

Thanks again.

Their Original Finish is the old Land Ark formula. Their concentrated finish is the same thing w/o the d-limonene.

 

[Mike Davis]

Well, apparently my humor was not appreciated. I apologize for having an opinion and not coming right out with it. I thought the post was obvious but I guess it was not.

I have never liked odies oil. I thought it was way overpriced from the start. When I was a sign painter we were approached by a new paint company that was trying to get into the sign industry. Their biggest advantage was price. Their paint was half the price of anything else and it seemed to work well. But it dried so fast it was not well suited for brush lettering. It would dry in the brush and gum up in minutes. We liked the paint and the price but need a little more open time. We talked to the reps and the chemist who gave us an answer similar to my post. I guess I remembered it being a lot more funny than it would be today with people generally being more sensitive.

I watched a vid yesterday of a furniture maker talking about fine finishes vs fast finishes. He basically said that finishes that perform and last more that a few years take time to apply properly. That deep luster you see in museums is the result of many thin coats of oil and thinner with two to four days of drying between each coat. Only after this weeks long process is the wax top coat applied. This is what I learned 40 years ago and still practice on my finest work. The kitchen ware is a slightly different process. Pure organic oil, several coats with a day between each coat but not wax.

I have said many times that English is not my best language, I am a visual artist and thinker in general. Words are hard and painful for me.

Again I apologize.

 

[ChemE75]

Their Original Finish is the old Land Ark formula. Their concentrated finish is the same thing w/o the d-limonene.

Less d-limonene, not none, it needs some for blending, helps avoid separation, also helps penetration of the oils.

Anyway, thx for posting link. Never heard of it and it does sound like a good source for quality products.

 

[TTocs Elgoh Woodw3rks]

Well, apparently my humor was not appreciated. I apologize for having an opinion and not coming right out with it. I thought the post was obvious but I guess it was not.

I have never liked odies oil. I thought it was way overpriced from the start. When I was a sign painter we were approached by a new paint company that was trying to get into the sign industry. Their biggest advantage was price. Their paint was half the price of anything else and it seemed to work well. But it dried so fast it was not well suited for brush lettering. It would dry in the brush and gum up in minutes. We liked the paint and the price but need a little more open time. We talked to the reps and the chemist who gave us an answer similar to my post. I guess I remembered it being a lot more funny than it would be today with people generally being more sensitive.

I watched a vid yesterday of a furniture maker talking about fine finishes vs fast finishes. He basically said that finishes that perform and last more that a few years take time to apply properly. That deep luster you see in museums is the result of many thin coats of oil and thinner with two to four days of drying between each coat. Only after this weeks long process is the wax top coat applied. This is what I learned 40 years ago and still practice on my finest work. The kitchen ware is a slightly different process. Pure organic oil, several coats with a day between each coat but not wax.

I have said many times that English is not my best language, I am a visual artist and thinker in general. Words are hard and painful for me.

Again I apologize.

Mike,

I appreciate your humor. It would be great to get something like you described, however, we all know that is a fairy tale, especially with large companies and the fact that as you stated, getting a good finish that will last almost forever takes multiple coats and time to get to that point. I use an array of finishes based on what my project is and the finish I would "like" for it to have. I have even crafted my own paste wax and "board butter" to use on some of my projects, but since they are wax based with an oil delivery system, I still advise others and myself that you have to apply a few coats and if the project is used (wooden spoons, spatulas etc) then after a few uses, you have to reapply the finish to keep it protected. There is no perfect finishes and I think others have to go with that mindset and pick what works for them. I've never used Odies oil and have heard from others that their outlook is primarily on profit, which as a business makes sense, but they prioritize it so much that they are getting to the point that they are pricing themselves out of customers too.