Judicial philosophy

[Monty]

I have seen several examples of issues raised about questionable posts. Since I'm a NOOB in the forum moderation duties, I figured I'd start a topic on this & see what ya'lls thoughts are. This forum is great - a welcome, relaxed atmosphere where people can feel comfortable posting questions and suggestions without fear of abuse from other members like you might see in some "other" forums out there. ;-) There are no attitude problems or harsh comments or micturating contests that I have noticed. However, people do make comments from time to time that seem... 'questionable'. Sometimes it's not so questionable but often it is questionable - they just post something that's in bad taste. They're obviously (to me anyway) trying to be funny and mean no harm, but I know I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt.

My personal opinion (humbly submitted as the NOOB) is that we should keep our interventions as minimal as possible in matters like this. I'm not saying let mob rule, but I just don't think we have a mob here! In general I think the more we as a group intervene and hide/delete/change/moderate people's posts, the more heavy-handed we will appear. What is the real test here? Would you let your kids read it -- is that the test? It's certainly a good rule of thumb when we're posting things, but we are in the company of adults here for the most part, or at least people who are mature enough to have an interest in woodworking.

Just wanted to see what yall think. Is there a way to 'keep it clean' without making the members feel that they have to watch it or they'll get a slap on the wrist?

<-- smiley

 

[cskipper]

Okay, what's NOOB (I know that I'm going to regret asking that!:lol: )

I understand what you are saying, and part of me feels that way too. I usually just ignore posts that kind of bother me, but is there a definable line? E.g. the t.i.t.s. post by cad REALLY bothered me in a public forum. I laughed but we often laugh at things that make us uncomfortable because we don't know or don't want to know what to do instead.

I agree we don't want a big brother is watching you atmosphere, but I don't see anything wrong with reminding folks about the apporpriateness of a post. I think we should either pull it or get in touch with the poster quickly and give them a chance to edit it. I don't like editing someone else's post.

Maybe random reminders about keeping this site a friendly..... - random but maybe canned so we could slap it to follow a questional post?

 

[McRabbet]

Okay, what's NOOB (I know that I'm going to regret asking that!:lol: )

Cathy, I believe it stands for "New One On the Block".

It is noteworthy that many of the problem issues are from relative newcomers. I agree with Monty that we don't want to instill fear of 'Big Brother Watching' into our membership by frequent intervention -- I strongly believe that method is a Band-Aid treatment for each individual case and may drive some away -- we need to strive to change people's philosophy site-wide, and to do it, I recommend that two things be done.

First, newcomers to the site are encouraged to read Steve's Post Who and What We Are. I reread it and while it is excellent, it doesn't really contain a philosophy of how members should watch their style when they post comments. I suggest he add a statement near the beginning of the post to instill our clean, informative style into their minds as they enter as new members.

Second, a Member Announcement to the same affect to remind everyone that while fun and humor is encouraged, we don't condone racial or gender bias in comments, nor sexual or lewd content. Again, Steve should author that announcement.

I think this will alleviate both the band-aid approach and provide a broader impact.

Rob

 

[Steve D]

Monty, great question and thoughts. That's the tough part of this because we want people to feel comfortable here and not have this become like some of the other sites out there. I agree that we should keep our interactions to a minimum to avoid a police state feeling.

The problem today is that poeple get offended too easily and are also too willing to discuss things openly that used to be taboo (religion, politics, money, etc.) I think applying the reasonable person standard and focussing on personal attacks, sexually explicit material and racial / ethnic stuff is appropriate, beyond that I think we should leave it alone.

I don't see an issue with Dawn's drawers, boxers, briefs and size does matter humor, CAD got close to the line with T.I.T.S. because that was the whole point of the post as opposed to a simple humorous comment.

 

[JohnsonMBrandon]

I guess it just depends but I think Monty does a pretty good job of the defining line. Would you want your kids to read it? Thats probably a good rule of thumb to start with, but being woodworkers I am sure we will come up with an occasional choice word for something that went wrong. All in all I think things have gone well. With any luck we won't have anymore issues from members.

 

[D L Ames]

I concur with keeping our interventions to a minimum. Before we pounce on what we consider a questionable post maybe we should see what sort of responses it draws from the other members. At the first sign of it becoming an issue then we could pull it off into moderation. Or post a friendly reminder to keep the posts focused on the subject at hand. On the other hand if we catch a post that is blatantly a flame, or inappropriate due to language of subject matter we could pull it immediately.

D L

 

[clowman]

Dl and all. I believe this to be a good rule of thumb. If it becomes an issue, then yank it. If it floats... let it float till it sinks to the bottom of the posts.

 

[SteveColes]

Needless to say, I have strong feelings about this whole topic. When I've had some sleep, I'll try to provide a better statement.

But, we currently have over 12,000 posts on this site and I doubt if there have been over 15 active moderations during the life of this site

 

[SteveColes]

I have been trying to figure out how to express my feelings on this subject and who I am speaking as, member, moderator, or webmaster. Frankly, I'm not sure. But for the purposes of this post, I guess I'll try to speak as a moderator.

I, too, do not want most people to feel that we are being heavy handed. But, I don't feel that a carefully worded PM from a moderator about a post is being heavy handed, I think it is the right approach for some things. In general that's what has been done. As far as I can remember, I have only come down "hard" twice in the history of this board.

... a welcome, relaxed atmosphere where people can feel comfortable posting questions and suggestions without fear of abuse from other members like you might see in some "other" forums out there. There are no attitude problems or harsh comments or micturating contests that I have noticed.

(BTW, I had to look "micturating" up. "micturating contests" :rolf: )

I firmly believe that a large part of the reason for this, is because of all the PMs I sent in the first months asking that people tone down some of their rhetoric. And when new members came on board, "sensed" the tone of the site and tended to maintain it. But it won't stay that way by itself, if we don't continue to remind people to tone down certain kinds of rhetoric when they get close to the line.

So when do we step in? First and foremost, I believe that preventative measures are best. A gentle word to the wise, before things escalate will probabaly be better received than deleting posts and threads. Deleting posts and threads will be genrally be accepted better that banning users.

 

[D L Ames]

(BTW, I had to look "micturating" up. "micturating contests" :rolf: )

Don't feel bad Steve, I had to look it up too. I just wanted to make sure Monty wasn't trying to call me a Richard Cranium or something.:rolf:

D L

 

[cskipper]

Perhaps it would be a good idea to float a post about posting every month or so. It could be canned text so the message would always be the same.

By the way, how do we move an individual post within a thread to moderation? I see how to move a thread, but am clueless about moving the posts.

 

[cskipper]

By the way, cad hasn't posted since we pm'd him about his second post.

 

[Monty]

when new members came on board, "sensed" the tone of the site and tended to maintain it.

Steve I think you have done a great job of establishing this site as a "civil" place, and I think people generally do appreciate the relatively low-key atmosphere here and play along accordingly. Like I said, I don't think we have a 'mob' here to try to control, and you have played a big role in making sure that is the case.

It is definitely an exceptional case when a post is 'questionable', but I wasn't sure based on a couple of recent minor examples that we all had a consensus about how to best handle the situation (I didn't want to see two or three of us bombarding a member with PM's about their post, etc). Or better yet how to keep things in line BEFORE having to intervene. Maybe a short, clear message upon registration? Maybe a sticky under webmaster announcements with a little "bump" every few months?

 

[cskipper]

I'm getting confused - we are discussing this same basic topic under different threads.

 

[McRabbet]

Steve I think you have done a great job of establishing this site as a "civil" place, and I think people generally do appreciate the relatively low-key atmosphere here and play along accordingly.

Or better yet how to keep things in line BEFORE having to intervene. Maybe a short, clear message upon registration? Maybe a sticky under webmaster announcements with a little "bump" every few months?

Monty, that is the ounce of prevention that I suggested in my earlier post -- I think an addition to the newcomer's Who and What We Are thread that provides that philosophy will go a long way in framing their minds as to the site's low-key, non-abrasive atmosphere. I think it will make all the difference.

Rob

 

[Monty]

I'm getting confused - we are discussing this same basic topic under different threads.

Yea, maybe we need to move Steve's redundant thread over to moderation! :eyeslam:




:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: <-- multiple smilies!

 

[cskipper]

Now, don't get me in trouble :lol:

 

[SteveColes]

I'm getting confused - we are discussing this same basic topic under different threads.

Yes we are ,my fault:-(

 

[SteveColes]

Monty, that is the ounce of prevention that I suggested in my earlier post -- I think an addition to the newcomer's Who and What We Are thread that provides that philosophy will go a long way in framing their minds as to the site's low-key, non-abrasive atmosphere. I think it will make all the difference.

Rob

Without a doubt, something like that is needed. And it must come from me. Let me first, change one of the mechanics of moderation so that what I'm about to propose is at least do able.

 

[cskipper]

By the way, how do we move an individual post within a thread to moderation? I see how to move a thread, but am clueless about moving the posts.

I think this part of my post got missed, or I didn't see the answer. I still don't know how to isolate a single post within a thread.