Jointer Question - Yes, another jointer question

Warped Woodwerks

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Senior User
the A3-31 is a 3kw motor, which consumes 12.5A when wired for 240V single-phasw
If that's the case, that would be great. My panel has 110 & 220, all 20A circuits, so would this work or...? As I stated before, I'm not an electrician, so 220/230/240.. no clue how that all works.

And thanks Bowman/Neal for the info.
 

bowman

Board of Directors, Webmaster
Neal
Staff member
Corporate Member
220/230/240 is a nominal range, so the amp draw could go to 13A is your measured voltage is on the lower end (220), but in either case, a 20A breaker should be sufficient to cover the load. You can always replace with a 30A breaker and use 10 gauge wire to feed this device.
 
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Warped Woodwerks

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Senior User
220/230/240 is a nominal range, so the amp draw could go to 13A is your measured voltage is on the lower end (220), but in either case, a 20A breaker should be sufficient to cover the load. You can always replace with a 30A breaker and use 10 gauge wire to feed this device.
Thanks for the info. If this online calculator is telling me the truth, it should be about 4 hp? That should be plenty for a 12" JP. Not sure if it would ever pop a 20A, but it's always nice to know that it would be "easy" to upgrade to a 30A.

At the sub panel, just change the internal run of 12 awg to the outlet that the JP would plug into, and then change the 20A to a 30A? If that's the case, it might be an 18" run of wire, not too pricey. Guess I'll cross that bridge when I have to.

Not sure if they ever run sales (yearly, like PM/Jet/Griz with their 10%), especially since Covid happened, but does anyone have recommendations as to where/who would be the "best" place to look at for potentially purchasing an A3-31? Looking to see what it would be with their spiral/helical cutter and mobility option.

Thanks again for all of your insight/help.
 

bowman

Board of Directors, Webmaster
Neal
Staff member
Corporate Member
I get the same results when converting kw to hp, although they are 2 different measurements...Hp is the rate at which work is done, whereas kw is measurement of electrical power required to perform said work..

Consult with a licensed electrician, yada, yada, yada...
 

striker

New User
Stephen
Thanks for the info. If this online calculator is telling me the truth, it should be about 4 hp? That should be plenty for a 12" JP. Not sure if it would ever pop a 20A, but it's always nice to know that it would be "easy" to upgrade to a 30A.

At the sub panel, just change the internal run of 12 awg to the outlet that the JP would plug into, and then change the 20A to a 30A? If that's the case, it might be an 18" run of wire, not too pricey. Guess I'll cross that bridge when I have to.

Not sure if they ever run sales (yearly, like PM/Jet/Griz with their 10%), especially since Covid happened, but does anyone have recommendations as to where/who would be the "best" place to look at for potentially purchasing an A3-31? Looking to see what it would be with their spiral/helical cutter and mobility option.

Thanks again for all of your insight/help.
I delt direct with Hammer (Felder group) in Maryland/Delaware for my A31-41.

Incidentally , mine is on a 30 amp breaker.
 

gamiller3rd

Pappy
Senior User
when researching the A31 a few years ago there were a lot of discussions on the web about different peoples experience with the breaker/circuit size issue. If I remember correctly, some were able to get by with a 20a circuit and others had to put in a 30. Seem like it had to do with the quality of the power supply.
 

Rwe2156

DrBob
Senior User
I’ve got an older 8” Grizzly jointer and it has served me well. It is the long bed option. I think I paid $850 maybe 20 years ago. I upgraded to helical. Do they even make any straight blade jointers anymore?

Sure I would like to have a 12” heck even a 16” jointer, but it’s served me well. I’ve used the trick of removing the guard and inserting 1/4” ply when running thru planer - works well. I’ve used it maybe 6 times in 20 years.

I wouldn’t be afraid if a Grizzly planer. Mine is a 20” and bears a striking resemblance to Powermatic and Jet that’s b/c they are cast in the same foundry. Cast iron in/outfeed tables vs rollers are inconsequential. I rarely if ever plane anything over 12” wide. If I were in a production shop I would have a segmented planer.

Personally a combo machine woukd drive me absolutely batty - some of the ones I’ve seen being used look like they don’t have the greatest chip collection.

Bottom line, 8” jointer, 12” planer will do most anything for a hobbyist.. Leave some room in the budget for a drum sander - that’s the biggest game changer you’ll ever buy!!
 

Warped Woodwerks

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Senior User
when researching the A31 a few years ago there were a lot of discussions on the web about different peoples experience with the breaker/circuit size issue. If I remember correctly, some were able to get by with a 20a circuit and others had to put in a 30. Seem like it had to do with the quality of the power supply.
Ah. Thank you for the info.

This is a brand new build, almost 1 year old now, so I am hoping the incoming electrical is good. Regardless, I'll take your information into consideration.

Thanks Pappy
 

Warped Woodwerks

.
Senior User
I’ve got an older 8” Grizzly jointer and it has served me well. It is the long bed option. I think I paid $850 maybe 20 years ago. I upgraded to helical. Do they even make any straight blade jointers anymore?

Sure I would like to have a 12” heck even a 16” jointer, but it’s served me well. I’ve used the trick of removing the guard and inserting 1/4” ply when running thru planer - works well. I’ve used it maybe 6 times in 20 years.

I wouldn’t be afraid of a Grizzly planer. Mine is a 20” and bears a striking resemblance to Powermatic and Jet that’s b/c they are cast in the same foundry. Cast iron in/outfeed tables vs rollers are inconsequential. I rarely if ever plane anything over 12” wide. If I were in a production shop I would have a segmented planer.

Personally a combo machine woukd drive me absolutely batty - some of the ones I’ve seen being used look like they don’t have the greatest chip collection.

Bottom line, 8” jointer, 12” planer will do most anything for a hobbyist.. Leave some room in the budget for a drum sander - that’s the biggest game changer you’ll ever buy!!
DrBob,

Thanks... When I first looked at J/P combos... I thought the same thing, with regards to the back and forth of jointing then to planer mode. Seemed silly, imo, but for a super tight workshop, it would probably be the better choice. Since I have a 13' x 23' shop, I think I could get away with an 8" jointer and 15" planer, as long as they were on mobile bases. I'd definitely do helical cutters on both.

I'll mockup my garage space, with ideal tools and their locations, then see what tools I can comfortably put in there. You are the 2nd/3rd person to suggest a drum/belt sander. Not sure I have the space for that, but regardless... if I can put it on a mobile base, I'll use it outside.

Thanks again for the info... Back to the drawing board.


Rory
 

Warped Woodwerks

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Senior User
Checked out the Grizzly G0495x a little closer and even though Grizzly says "helical" cutterhead, it appears to be more of a straight-like segmented cutter. :(

 

Warped Woodwerks

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Senior User
This Baileigh looks very nice: IJ-883P-HH - Long Bed Parallelogram Jointer with Spiral Cutter Head | Baileigh Industrial
Unfortunately, $4,400 seems to be pretty steep, imo, especially since I've never really heard of them or their reliability/quality, etc...etc. I know Jet bought them, JPW industries, but what does that truly mean. :D

Anyone ever use this jointer, can recommend/not recommend, etc.? Sales?

Thanks and I hope I am not over thinking this purchase too much.
 

Martin Roper

Martin
Senior User
Rory, the vast majority of those tools are made in China, often in the same factory. The only differences between most brands are paint and bolt-ons like bases, handles, switches and such. The iron casting on these two appears to be absolutely identical. I'm guessing the difference in price is the quality of the cutterhead.

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Warped Woodwerks

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Senior User
Looks like Hammer has a "sale" going on, so I'll inquire about pricing, and go from there.
No tax, but wonder what shipping will be.

Before I reach out, what accessories should I look at purchasing?

Silent power/cutterblock
Aluminum handwheel
Indicator clock with digital readout (in inches or mm? I don't use mm, but at the price differences, maybe I would - $155 for the in. vs $98 for mm version? Wow!)

I'd probably build a mobile base with (4) 360 casters for a lot less than their mobility base and I don't think I'd spend that kind of money for their table extensions.

Your input is always appreciated....

Thanks again. Rory
 

mkepke

Mark
Senior User
Thank you for your suggestion/recommendation. I'll give PM a hard look.

Never thought this would be such a challenging task... choosing a jointer.
The problem is only that you have so many choices. For a long time, the hobby shop standard was a 6” three knife jointer (and there were 4” jointers before that). Lotta stuff got made with those.

Go back to needs and wants, your budget and what you plan to build. Do you need a spiral cutterhead? Do you plan to work with woods that are hard on steel knives (pecan, hickory, teak,...) or prone to tear out (figured woods)? Is changing knives a problem for you - might be once a year for a hobbyist?

Are you going to work with long timbers - for doors, countertops, etc - where you need long infeed/outfeed tables?

Do you need a high horsepower machine - hard wood, deep cuts?

Do you need fancy adjustments - parallelogram machines, handwheels, digital readouts? Will you be changing depth of cut often and by much?

FWIW, I have a 12" j/p combo (Robland). The jointer is a short bed. Never use the 12" planer - switchover is a bit of pain but worse is having to switch back and forth if you need one more part - instead I have a separate 15" Powermatic with steel knives.

Speaking for myself, I'd be looking for used equipment. New prices have spiraled out of control. For example, looks like the 'basic' straight knife 8" Griz jointer is 2x the price it was 5 years ago.

-Mark
 

Warped Woodwerks

.
Senior User
The problem is only that you have so many choices. For a long time, the hobby shop standard was a 6” three knife jointer (and there were 4” jointers before that). Lotta stuff got made with those.

Go back to needs and wants, your budget and what you plan to build. Do you need a spiral cutterhead? Do you plan to work with woods that are hard on steel knives (pecan, hickory, teak,...) or prone to tear out (figured woods)? Is changing knives a problem for you - might be once a year for a hobbyist?

Are you going to work with long timbers - for doors, countertops, etc - where you need long infeed/outfeed tables?

Do you need a high horsepower machine - hard wood, deep cuts?

Do you need fancy adjustments - parallelogram machines, handwheels, digital readouts? Will you be changing depth of cut often and by much?

FWIW, I have a 12" j/p combo (Robland). The jointer is a short bed. Never use the 12" planer - switchover is a bit of pain but worse is having to switch back and forth if you need one more part - instead I have a separate 15" Powermatic with steel knives.

Speaking for myself, I'd be looking for used equipment. New prices have spiraled out of control. For example, looks like the 'basic' straight knife 8" Griz jointer is 2x the price it was 5 years ago.

-Mark
Mark,

So true... 6", 8", 12", etc. jointers. Handwheels, levers, straight knives, spiral/helical. 72", 7x", 82", 8x" beds, DRO, non-DRO.

After dinging something with my lunchbox planer, and it using straight knives, I'd rather deal with segmented cutters.

Furniture builds: I plan on making 2+ dining room table tops in 2022, 1 for my dining room and 1 for my outdoor entertainment area (between 6' to 8' long and maybe 1-2 more down the road?), so I would imagine a slightly longer bed would be better for that. Other than that, more nightstands, built-in desk (less than 7' long), master closet built-ins (faceframes/drawer fronts), blanket chests, bedroom furniture, and maybe some items for friends/family (dining room tables, smaller items like dresser, end tables/nightstands, cutting board/butcher block).

Budget: I'd be ok with spending between $5,000 - $7,000 for a combo or 2 separates, just as long as they are "life long" tools, great quality/reliability... you know the rest.

Wood type/s: Definitely using Red\White oak, Walnut, Ash, Cherry, Maple. Maybe down the road: pecan, hickory, p.h., and maybe 1-2 exotics.. but these would be most likely a very small percentage of items I would build with these woods.
I am a 1 man hobby garage shop, so I wouldn't move that jointer much, if ever? Ease of use, and reliability, would that be parallelogram, or dovetail? Also, would 2hp work, or would that be overloaded? 3hp much better choice?

I can't see myself affording/buying a stand alone 12" jointer, ever...so 8" wide would probably be it, if I never went with a JP combo. A combo, I'd be ok with 12" & shorter beds.

Regarding "fancy" adjustment question. I don't need handwheels, but if those are easier and better for accuracy, why not. I don't need a DRO, so I am ok without that. If parallelogram is easier to use, better in terms of quality and longevity, sign me up!

Prices: Yeah, new equipment has definitely gone through the roof, but regardless... I am not sure I really want used. I'd prefer new.

If I just purchased a jointer, 8", I'd use my 12.5" Dewalt lunchbox planer until it broke or I needed to hop up to a 15".
I know PM, Jet, Griz, Laguna all have sales, which would help ease the pain of the higher prices, but I don't know which way to look. They all appear to be either China or Taiwan built, same/similar castings, 1 year warranty on the motor only while some have 2-5 years on the rest of the jointer.... I hear stories on all of these jointer.. they are great, crap, ok.. Phenomenal customer service, crap service.. great build.. poor build... I guess there is no rhyme or reason with any brands, $2000 - $4,500 jointers... Just appears to be.. "you just happened to have been lucky.." or.. "you just got a lemon, because we've all have wonderful experiences with that brand/model.

I bought a brand new SawStop 3hp PCS..it sat for almost 1 year until I had the electrical install. Once the electrical was installed, the saw never worked. Flashing red lights over and over.. issues upon more issues.. troubleshooting upon troubleshooting.. etc.. They finally sent me a brand new saw and I've only ran it once since receiving it.. (turned it on then right off) and I received the new replacement end of May/early June (?) of this year. I guess I am just fearful that it will trip for no apparent reason and blow another cartridge and then damage/destroy my $$$$ blades.

My point is, I don't want to go through another migraine with another expensive tool. Also, SawStop (like PM, or some other higher end tool) is glorified on most/all forums.. then again, it isn't perfect and they all have flaws, so.. I guess, in the end, does it matter if I spend $5k+ on a jointer/planer combo.. or $2k - $3k on a jointer as well as a planer?

It is a little frustrating, because I still don't know what is "best" for myself/shop, and projects. All I know is... I want to stay with woodworking for a long time (20+ years), so a quality product is my end goal. Also, I don't have a problem paying for that tool. Buy once.. cry once.


Thanks again! Rory
 

mkepke

Mark
Senior User
Based on what you described

jointer:
*parallelogram
*Hand wheels or levers doesn’t matter
*2 or more HP doesn’t matter
* carbide inserts sound like a nice to have but you have the budget
* boards up to 8-9’ long = buy something with tables min 4-4.5’ long
* fear of getting a lemon = buy something where a local dealer will stand behind you and with a minimum of complex do-dads

The last one eliminates several brands.

You can apply the same logic to a combo j/p if you decide one of those would suit your style of work.

-Mark
 

Warped Woodwerks

.
Senior User
Based on what you described

jointer:
*parallelogram
*Hand wheels or levers doesn’t matter
*2 or more HP doesn’t matter
* carbide inserts sound like a nice to have but you have the budget
* boards up to 8-9’ long = buy something with tables min 4-4.5’ long
* fear of getting a lemon = buy something where a local dealer will stand behind you and with a minimum of complex do-dads

The last one eliminates several brands.

You can apply the same logic to a combo j/p if you decide one of those would suit your style of work.

-Mark
Mark,

Thanks for the information.

Local dealer would be Laguna, PM, Jet, and I think that's it, if I'm not mistaken. Don't think Baileigh, Griz have a local dealer. If I'm missing another company, please let me know.

With regards to J/P combo, I think the only local dealer would be Jet, yes? Hammer is out of state.

Rory
 

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