Jointer Question - Yes, another jointer question

[Warped Woodwerks]

Hello...

I recently purchased a lot of rough sawn boards (6" - 13" wide) and am "close" to directing my funds towards a new jointer.

I'm nothing more than a garage hobbyist, but would be open to doing some casual commission pieces down the road, so I am 99.99% set on an 8" jointer. The reason I say an 8" is... 12" is insanely pricey and I'm thinking an 8" would be ideal and then use the rest of the funds towards a "proper" planer (15"). I'd like a 12" jointer, but most are usually 5hp and require a 30A circuit (all of mine are 20A and upgrading 1 to a 30A would require electrical skills that I do not have), also weigh a lot (850++ lbs). 12" are usually $5,500+, too.

Thought about a 12" J/P, but those have really short beds (about 55"?) and the planer is only 12". Looked at a Hammer A3-31 and Minimax FS30X, but those are 4.x HP and (I believe) require a 25A/30A circuit. Also, I am not sure of their prices, since I can't seem to find it listed anywhere (have to call/email for quote). This route would give me a 12" jointer, but how much would I be sacrificing (besides the obvious 3" of planing ability) with regards to a larger planing surface?

My woodworking side of the garage is 13' x 20'. I have a 60 amp sub-panel with several dedicated circuits.
Some 110 and some 220... all 20A. I'd throw most/all of my bigger tools on mobile bases, too, so I could do 2 machines vs the 1 J/P combo.

I have a 3hp SawStop PCS, track saw, Dewalt 734 planer (plan on selling it down the road), Miter saw, and some other misc. tools.
Sure, some/all of the above mentioned tools could straighten & "flatten" a board, but most likely would need a jig of sorts, so I can run it through the planer. To me, a bunch of time wasted & "unnecessary" steps to get subpar results, maybe slightly better than sub-par.

Regardless... yesterday I put together a spreadsheet comparing (5) 8" jointers. Overall, the Grizzly looks like a winner, but maybe another set of eyes can chime in?

ALL jointers I am looking at are new, with a parallelogram table, and a spiral/helical head.

I know Grizzly has a "Spring/Summer" sales event.. and code: APRIL10 (Wilkerson?) might work during their sales time? If not, the APRIL10 still knocks a few hundred off of their products during the rest of the year. Also, I've done a decent amount of research on this Grizzly, but other input would be appreciated, especially with comparison to other 8" jointers and jointers I might be missing. Is the Grizzly G0495x the "best/better" choice?


Regardless of what is mentioned above, with regards to an 8" jointer, I'd be open to the idea of a J/P combo...but not sure it would be worth it. Also, would the back and forth mess with the accuracy?

The following companies make J/P combos:
Baileigh
Hammer
Minimax
Jet
Rikon

Overall, I want "superior" build quality, accuracy, cost effective but don't want to sacrifice the other items (build quality/ accuracy/ etc.), helical/spiral, parallelogram, new. Basically, the "best" overall for the price.


Opinions, ideas, suggestions, comments...etc.


Thanks and looking forward to hearing from you.

Rory

 

[Warped Woodwerks]

Also... if it helps, the 15" planer I was looking at, if I go down the road with purchasing an 8" jointer, might be the Grizzly G1021X2 (15" 3 HP Extreme Series Planer w/ Helical Cutterhead at Grizzly.com).

If I do end up going the 8" jointer route, is the above mentioned Grizzly planer a worthy candidate, or should I consider others.... ? Anything that is reasonably priced near the Grizzly is OK, too.

Thanks again.

Rory

​

 

[jlwest]

I have found that using a jointer to flatten and straighten wood is very difficult especially for wider wood. I would recommend upgrading to the dewalt 735 and use a simple sled with shims to straighten wood. I also think Grizzly machines still lack good manufacturing QC. Just my opinion.

 

[Oka]

8in is sufficient for most things you are going to do. I would not get a combo unit, but that is just me. Having the flexibility to move units around and being able to have 2 set ups on 2 different units just seems to me more logical.
If you have the cash add a drum sander to your list. This will prove to be really useful to your efforts . Get something that is 16in wide min.

 

[Warped Woodwerks]

I have found that using a jointer to flatten and straighten wood is very difficult especially for wider wood. I would recommend upgrading to the dewalt 735 and use a simple sled with shims to straighten wood. I also think Grizzly machines still lack good manufacturing QC. Just my opinion.

Jeff,

I respect your thoughts/input.

If I am going to upgrade my current planer, DeWalt 734, I'd skip another lunch box and go right to a 3hp 15" planer. If I did bypass a jointer purchase, I could get away with just a jig to flatten & table saw/track saw to create a straight edge... then use the jointer money, down the road, for a different tool (band saw, drill press, Domino?).

 

[Melinapex]

Rory,
I have the 8" grizzly. It has had a lot of problems, maybe I got a dud, but I had to replace the infeed table (on arrival so grizz warranted it) . After too long I realized the fence was twisted, paid for that. The pulley wheel kept slipping on the motor shaft so I replaced the whole thing with a different type of shiv.. and finally it died on me, but Phil came over and discovered wires had come loose out of the power box so an easy fix, but one more thing that went wrong. I have a grizzly bandsaw that has been problem free, but I wish I had spent more money on a higher quality jointer. The two machines I use for every project are my jointer and my planer, and the most important thing to me (other than stay sharp!) is to start straight and flat....
When I upgraded my planer I got a Jet (seemed like a powermatic with a different paint job).
I am sure every brand has a bad unit once in a while and many members have had good luck with their products, this time I did not. On the plus side, whatever you buy, there is sure to be someone in the group who knows how to fix it!

 

[Martin Roper]

I have the Jet JJP-12HH. I got a great deal on a used one. I simply don't have room for separates. I've never had a planer wider than 12" so I don't miss the greater capacity. I've had no problem jointing 8+" boards.

One issue you'll have with a wide planer is handling big boards. The good news is a big jointer can handle big boards easily. The bad news is I can't anymore. If a board is more bulky than usual, I'll knock down the high spots with a plane rather than try to sling it around over and over. I'm not much of a hand tool guy, so I don't try to get too exact with it, just close enough to finish up with fewer passes.

 

[gamiller3rd]

Ditto on the Jet JJP12-HH. Had mine nearly a year and I wish ’d bought it years ago.

 

[Warped Woodwerks]

Rory,
I have the 8" grizzly. It has had a lot of problems, maybe I got a dud, but I had to replace the infeed table (on arrival so grizz warranted it) . After too long I realized the fence was twisted, paid for that. The pulley wheel kept slipping on the motor shaft so I replaced the whole thing with a different type of shiv.. and finally it died on me, but Phil came over and discovered wires had come loose out of the power box so an easy fix, but one more thing that went wrong. I have a grizzly bandsaw that has been problem free, but I wish I had spent more money on a higher quality jointer. The two machines I use for every project are my jointer and my planer, and the most important thing to me (other than stay sharp!) is to start straight and flat....
When I upgraded my planer I got a Jet (seemed like a powermatic with a different paint job).
I am sure every brand has a bad unit once in a while and many members have had good luck with their products, this time I did not. On the plus side, whatever you buy, there is sure to be someone in the group who knows how to fix it!

Melinapex:
You have the same Grizzly jointer I am looking at (G0495x)?

Your experience with Grizzly is similar to the one I've had with my (at the time) brand new SawStop (here is the OP -

https://ncwoodworker.net/forums/index.php?threads/look-what-i-get-to-do-this-weekend.72940/page-2).

I know my experience is probably similar to the one you've had with Grizzly, and that is something I never want to experience ever again with any of my future tool purchases, but I guess it goes back to QC as well as some cutting of corners to save a buck?

You mentioned you wished you would have purchased a jointer of higher quality. Which (new) brand/model would you consider to be better quality? If I have to take another ~6 months or so, to save more to get a "nicer" machine... I'll do that, vs "rushing" into buying a jointer just to buy one.

Also, I do see some 8" jointers having a 2hp motor (PM, for instance), instead of a 3hp, is that going to be enough "power?"

After reading your post... I am sorry to hear of your experience and don't wish this on my worst enemy.

Thanks...

Rory

 

[junquecol]

On the jointer, using rabbeting ledge, you can face joint board up to 50% wider than the jointer. You joint, using rabbeting ledge, then place a plywood shim under jointed area, and run thru planner till second face is parallel to jointed area. Flip board over and joint off unjointed area. I do 9" boards on my 6 inch jointer. You may have to add a plywood (hardboard) shim to in feed table, that lines up with rabbeting ledge. This is in case you have to make more than one pass over the jointer. You will need to remove "pork chop style guard," and replace it with a shop made guard that clamps to the fence.

 

[Warped Woodwerks]

On the jointer, using rabbeting ledge, you can face joint board up to 50% wider than the jointer. You joint, using rabbeting ledge, then place a plywood shim under jointed area, and run thru planner till second face is parallel to jointed area. Flip board over and joint off unjointed area. I do 9" boards on my 6 inch jointer. You may have to add a plywood (hardboard) shim to in feed table, that lines up with rabbeting ledge. This is in case you have to make more than one pass over the jointer. You will need to remove "pork chop style guard," and replace it with a shop made guard that clamps to the fence.

Bruce: I've seen this done before and it would be helpful, especially in a pinch for those slightly wider boards.

Thanks for mentioning this as an option.

 

[Melinapex]

Melinapex:
You have the same Grizzly jointer I am looking at (G0495x)?

Your experience with Grizzly is similar to the one I've had with my (at the time) brand new SawStop (here is the OP -

https://ncwoodworker.net/forums/index.php?threads/look-what-i-get-to-do-this-weekend.72940/page-2).

I know my experience is probably similar to the one you've had with Grizzly, and that is something I never want to experience ever again with any of my future tool purchases, but I guess it goes back to QC as well as some cutting of corners to save a buck?

You mentioned you wished you would have purchased a jointer of higher quality. Which (new) brand/model would you consider to be better quality? If I have to take another ~6 months or so, to save more to get a "nicer" machine... I'll do that, vs "rushing" into buying a jointer just to buy one.

Also, I do see some 8" jointers having a 2hp motor (PM, for instance), instead of a 3hp, is that going to be enough "power?"

After reading your post... I am sorry to hear of your experience and don't wish this on my worst enemy.

Thanks...

Rory

Rory,
If I could do over I would spend the money and get the Jet or powermatic.. and for me, the hp isn't as important since I am a hobbyist and can always take a lighter pass. I don't have to shove a ton of board feet thru these tools to make a living.....

 

[Warped Woodwerks]

Mark... thanks for the info.

I know Jet, Powermatic, Baileigh, etc., are all basically the same... Wondering, since the Baileigh and Powermatic are basically identical on paper, if 1 would be more "ideal," since the prices are similar.

Baileigh has a 1 year warranty, PM has 5, but only 1 on the electronics/motor.
Baileigh has wheels for table leveling (which I might prefer over the PM's), but PM has handle bars for adjustment.
Baileigh has fewer cutters, but PM's cutterhead is smaller.
Baileigh's fence is a lot bigger vs PM's

I might be slicing hairs with an extremely fine toothed comb, but when you are dishing out a decent amount of coin, you are wanting a "forever" tool..

I believe PM has sales (spring/summer & 10%?), but not sure if Baileigh does.

Regardless... your help/information has been very helpful.

Anyone else have PM, Baileigh, etc. jointer/tool experiences that might continue to sway me away from Grizzly?

Rory

 

[blackhawk]

Rory - I bought the Grizzly G0490X in December 2015. Knock on wood, it has ran perfectly for me all that time, not a single problem. I didn't turn the first insert until a year ago. I wanted a 10" jointer but nobody makes a 10" any longer. I went with the 8" and haven't regretted it at all. It is really rare for me to joint boards wider than 8". I have 4 Grizzly machines and the quality has been good overall. The couple of times that I did need to get a spare part, it took forever. Spare part availability is my biggest beef with Grizzly.

The G0495X is nice but I don't think it is worth the extra $1300 from the G0490X. I've owned jointers for 30 years and have never needed a digital readout or handwheels. It has an extra 6-1/2" of bed length, but that's not a huge gain in my opinion.

 

[Warped Woodwerks]

2-3 years ago, I was looking at Grizzly's G0858 model. This is slightly more than the G0490x as well as from an ISO 9001 factory. Not sure why I stopped considering it, but it was probably due to the fact that I was distracted with a newer and shinier toy.

That is good to hear, that your Grizzly has treated decently/well. Yes, a 10" jointer would be great, but like you said, none can be found.

Your comment about spare parts and their availability is very true. Casually looking through their website over the years.. I have seen a lot of... "in stock in 6+ months." If a part fails and it won't be in stock for months, if not years, is not something I want to deal with. Then again, a lot of this is also happening in general (Covid-related).

You are right, the G0495x is a nice looking machine (on paper and online), but is it really worth that price tag. Even with a $300 discount, it is still too overpriced vs their G0858/G0490x models? A few things I do like about the G0495x are: the handwheels would be a nice "upgrade" imo, but not necessary... and the table thickeness. It is about an extra 1" thicker of the G0858/G0490x and almost 200 lbs heavier (which I am assuming would help with vibrations, etc.). That digital readout, imo, is silly and I wouldn't waste a 9-volt on it.

Definitely have respectable options here. All 3 models have decent rated reviews, on Grizzy's site. I guess it just comes down to the roll of the dice, since all of these jointers (Griz, PM, Laguna, Jet, etc.) come from Asia and the same 1-3 factories.

 

[Melinapex]

Mark... thanks for the info.

I know Jet, Powermatic, Baileigh, etc., are all basically the same... Wondering, since the Baileigh and Powermatic are basically identical on paper, if 1 would be more "ideal," since the prices are similar.

Baileigh has a 1 year warranty, PM has 5, but only 1 on the electronics/motor.
Baileigh has wheels for table leveling (which I might prefer over the PM's), but PM has handle bars for adjustment.
Baileigh has fewer cutters, but PM's cutterhead is smaller.
Baileigh's fence is a lot bigger vs PM's

I might be slicing hairs with an extremely fine toothed comb, but when you are dishing out a decent amount of coin, you are wanting a "forever" tool..

I believe PM has sales (spring/summer & 10%?), but not sure if Baileigh does.

Regardless... your help/information has been very helpful.

Anyone else have PM, Baileigh, etc. jointer/tool experiences that might continue to sway me away from Grizzly?

Rory

Rory, I would pick the brand that has the broadest distribution, which I think would be the powermatic. Odds are better parts availability and more folks know how to fix them. Everything mechanical breaks eventually.

 

[Warped Woodwerks]

Rory, I would pick the brand that has the broadest distribution, which I think would be the powermatic. Odds are better parts availability and more folks know how to fix them. Everything mechanical breaks eventually.

Mark,

Thank you for your suggestion/recommendation. I'll give PM a hard look.

Never thought this would be such a challenging task... choosing a jointer.

 

[striker]

Looks Like the Hammer A3-31 is 4500.00 on their site. That machine covers you for a planer and jointer. I have the A3-41 (16") and absolutely love it. whisper quiet, easy to swop from planer to jointer, and accurate.

To me, it doesn't make much sense to get a wide planer and then limit your capacity by getting a jointer half the width. You're generally using the machines in combination with one another. In a similar vane, why buy 2 motors, 2 cutter heads when in a small shop you can only run one at a time? why not have one machine that covers both planer and jointer? In a larger shop with multiple users then separate machines make sense.

 

[Warped Woodwerks]

Looks Like the Hammer A3-31 is 4500.00 on their site. That machine covers you for a planer and jointer. I have the A3-41 (16") and absolutely love it. whisper quiet, easy to swop from planer to jointer, and accurate.

To me, it doesn't make much sense to get a wide planer and then limit your capacity by getting a jointer half the width. You're generally using the machines in combination with one another. In a similar vane, why buy 2 motors, 2 cutter heads when in a small shop you can only run one at a time? why not have one machine that covers both planer and jointer? In a larger shop with multiple users then separate machines make sense.

The main reason I was staying away from the Hammer/Minimax JP's were due to the 4.xHP motors. I'd be open to the Hammer, with a Spiral/Helical, but my sub panel is only setup for 60A 110/220 w/20 A circuits each & I'm not sure if the Hammer requires 25A or 30A. I recall reading some people were told, by Hammer, it would be OK to run it on a 20A, but I'm no electrician and I personally wouldn't think it would be safe on a 20A.

If anyone knows for sure, please let me know... I'd greatly appreciate it.

 

[bowman]

the A3-31 is a 3kw motor, which consumes 12.5A when wired for 240V single-phasw