Japanese Natural Waterstones

B

BML

Lee
Senior User
Good morning,

I wanted to see if anyone here was familiar with or has used a Japanese natural water stone. In particular, I am looking at buying an Okuda Suita and/or a Nakayama Akapin Tomae. I have synthetic Shapton Kuromaku stones in 1, 5, 8, and 12k at the moment, and the vendor I am in contact with recommended a natural stone for the final polish after the 12k.

Just wanted to see if anyone here had experience with Japanese naturals and their use as final polishing stones after synthetics.

Thanks,
Lee
 
B

BML

Lee
Senior User
It most certainly is not a need…I enjoy sharpening and enjoy the pursuit of the sharpest finest edge I can get on a tools blade.

Lee
 
E

Echd

C
User
I would just like to add that plane blades and chisels sharpened with the shapton 12k are still able to cut me really well and I have stains in previously nice clothing and carpet to prove it.
 
Graywolf

Graywolf

Board of Directors, President
Richard
Staff member
Corporate Member
BML said:
Chisels I can do, gouges I haven’t ever gotten into!

Lee
Click to expand...
No time like the present to learn right. I'm sorry, that dosen't answer your question. When I used water stones, I had 1500 grit and a 4000 grit pair of stones paired with a leather stop. I have yet to find a reason or a need to go any farther. Even today I use other products to sharpen and still I have had no reason to go any farther than a few thousand grit and a strop. However your needs and desires with sharpening are different. so I can only wish you luck on your adventure and hope you will share your finding as you progress. I for one would be interesting in hearing how it goes.
 
M

Madmaxnkitty

New User
Rick
I use a 36000 grit synthetic as a finisher for my straight razors; mirror finish under a 10x loupe, and absolute overkill for shop tools. I'm told that jnats can do even better, but I never wanted to spend to find out.

Keep us posted!
 
bbrown

bbrown

Bill
User
It's amazing how long stoping can keep a blade really sharp without needing to use a stone. Just need to keep up with it.
 
O

Oka

Casey
Corporate Member
Agreed I use my shapton 1600 for polishing the surface when sharpening the 1st time I sharpen a new tool.

The strop is the thing that really makes the edge.
 
Rwe2156

Rwe2156

DrBob
Senior User
This ^^

This is a total non-answer, I just see someone who might need some perspective.

I believe in finding what works, and keep it simple. All you need is a few coarser grit diamond plates, one or two water stones and a strop. Sharpening should be a pit stop done efficiently. The object is to get back to work quickly .

You don’t need expensive stones. I use a Norton 4/8K and sometimes a Shapton 12K. The Norton will last me 4-5 years. As mentioned stropping is going to get the polish that seals the deal.

I generally go from 1200 diamond -> 8K water stone -> 10-15 strokes on MDF coated with compound. I do not use leather strops because I think they dub the edges if the angle is raised a bit.

IMO going further than 16K is more than splitting hairs …… the first time the edge is banged into hard wood you’re no better off than me and my 8K.

For many sharpening is a necessary evil, if you want to embrace the dark side go right ahead!
 
Gofor

Gofor

Mark
Corporate Member
What I always find confusing is the differences in coarseness ratings between a diamond stone/wet-dry paper and water stones. I sure wish abrasives had a common standard for "grit" ratings.
 
M

MTod

Michael
Corporate Member
I would be skeptical about any claims that a natural stone will sharpen much finer than your shapton 12k unless you had some nice pictures under a microscope. Some Japanese natural stones may in fact be finer, some may not. One thing that you will find if you change from your shapton finishing stones to Japanes natural stones is that the feel is nicer. I do not really like the feel of the shapton 12k, though it does fine work.

I assume you are using Japanese chisels and/or planes? One further advantage of the natural stone is that it does not polish the soft iron backing on the Japanese tools and instead leaves the traditional 'kasumi' finish which is more matte.

If you do get one of the natural stones your could probably go straight from your 5k stone. No real need for 3 polishing stones. Of course you should experiment and see what works for you.

Hope that is helpful.
 
B

BML

Lee
Senior User
MTod said:
I would be skeptical about any claims that a natural stone will sharpen much finer than your shapton 12k unless you had some nice pictures under a microscope. Some Japanese natural stones may in fact be finer, some may not. One thing that you will find if you change from your shapton finishing stones to Japanes natural stones is that the feel is nicer. I do not really like the feel of the shapton 12k, though it does fine work.

I assume you are using Japanese chisels and/or planes? One further advantage of the natural stone is that it does not polish the soft iron backing on the Japanese tools and instead leaves the traditional 'kasumi' finish which is more matte.

If you do get one of the natural stones your could probably go straight from your 5k stone. No real need for 3 polishing stones. Of course you should experiment and see what works for you.

Hope that is helpful.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the insight. Yes, various different Japanese steels in chisels and plane blades. I know different steels react differently to different stones, so we will see. I ended up getting a Nakayama Akapin stone, so I’ll report back. This particular stone type is supposed to be great for both white and blue steel.

Lee
 
M

MTod

Michael
Corporate Member
Lee,

I am sure you will enjoy your new stone. Definitely experiment with clear water and with making a slurry on your stone. There can be a marked difference in feel and effect if your stone is harder and does not self-slurry. Enjoy and let us know what your impressions are.

Michael
 
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