IPE - wood movement

Ralrick

New User
Rick
We are installing a new deck using IPE (Brazilian Hardwood). We're using a 'picture framing' type layout with a boarder board and then a board perpendicular to the house at each support column that will then create the frames around the horizontal boards. I'm using 3/16" gap between the horizontal boards, but what should be the gap between the end of the horizontal board to the edge of the frame board.

Hopefully some have experience with using Ipe. The wood is beautiful but just not sure what to expect for movement/expansion.



Thanks,
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Rick
 

tarheelz

Dave
Corporate Member
Looking good.

I am looking at this project for this fall. Fantastic that you're going with 6" boards but I see you did not get grooved boards for clips. Will you be face screwing these with those SS screws I see folks using for this?

My thoughts on your question: Very little space needed at the ends. The deck boards won't get longer and over time the "frame" will shrink by width.
 

Oka

Casey
Corporate Member
Ipe does not move or wane hardly at all. That is why it is a good wood for deck. That, and its density the termites do not like eating it.
In San Francisco, we just used a 16D nail as the spacer, never had any issue ever.
 

Ralrick

New User
Rick
Looking good.

I am looking at this project for this fall. Fantastic that you're going with 6" boards but I see you did not get grooved boards for clips. Will you be face screwing these with those SS screws I see folks using for this?

My thoughts on your question: Very little space needed at the ends. The deck boards won't get longer and over time the "frame" will shrink by width.
I ended up using 1/8” spacing at the ends. It looks good and gives me some peace of mind in case there is some movement.

For installation, I decided on the Camo edge installation system. I didn’t like the look of the clips and the Camo system would allow a board to removed/replaced if needed. You cannot see the screws when standing on the deck. I did need to face screw and plug along the outside and along the edge of the house.

Lastly, with my deck being fairly low to the ground, my original plan was to use 6” boards for the framing and then 4” boards for filling in to prevent cupping. Instead, I cut kerfs in the bottom of the boards to hopefully prevent any cupping. It took a while, but hopefully was worth it. Time will tell.

Rick
 

Ralrick

New User
Rick
Another Question @Ralrick : Who did you use as your IPE supplier?

Dave - I decided on using American Cedar and Millwork out of Raleigh. They had a premium brand of Ipe, Ironwood. They also had great customer service including delivery that included unloading and placing the wood where needed onsite at Lake Gaston for us. The online sources all mandated I unload the wood from the trucks.

My rep at American Cedar was Danny Kidd. He took the time to calculate and plan all the lengths of boards I needed based on a drawing I provided.

Rick
 

tarheelz

Dave
Corporate Member
I like the Camo system! I'd love to hear tales of how Camo worked with Ipe. Given the hardness I figured it would be a bear for their standard screws.
 

Ralrick

New User
Rick
I like the Camo system! I'd love to hear tales of how Camo worked with Ipe. Given the hardness I figured it would be a bear for their standard screws.

Based on my research, you can use either stainless or steel screws with Camo and Ipe. The steel screws will discolor the wood but based on where the screws are, you would never see the discoloration. I still went with Stainless screws. They were about $100 including tax/shipping from Amazon for 700 screws. I used 1 7/8 screws and was using 5/4 Ipe Deck boards (true 1" thick). The interesting part of the Camo system is that the predrill for Ipe is a 3/16" hole. That is a clearance hole for the screw so you are actually just using the screw head to hold the board and the threads are all into the joists. For areas where I couldn't use the Camo, I used #10 Stainless screws and Ipe plugs. Hope that helps and happy to take close up pictures if there is anything you want to see.

Rick
 

Cbozz

Chris
User
I guess this would be a good place to note the surprisingly little known fact that wood of all sorts doesn't move much along the length of the grain, and that most movement is perpendicular. (longitudinal vs axial)

This fact comes into play in the typical construction of may things. Balloon framing, door slab construction, etc.

Add in the fact that ipe is very stable and you probably could have put it in with credit card spacing and been fine.
 

tarheelz

Dave
Corporate Member
Sadly no matter how narrow we COULD go with spacing of ipe (along width), the Camo system creates a 3/16 in. (There is a 1/16 in version but it messes up the top of hardwood boards. Only recommended for pressure treated stuff.)
 

Billm0066

Bill
User
It looks so nice, I wouldn't even want chairs on it haha. I searched for about a year to buy on Lake Gaston but prices soared so I got priced out. I ended up finding one on Lake Royale that I closed on in June. Prices there are soaring now so I lucked out. My next project there is going to build stairs to get down to the lake. Im going to give this a whirl

I havent worked with ipe before but picked some up at a wood shop and couldnt believe how heavy it was. What is the projected life span of it as a horizontal deck surface? Will it turn gray or anything?
 

Ralrick

New User
Rick
It looks so nice, I wouldn't even want chairs on it haha. I searched for about a year to buy on Lake Gaston but prices soared so I got priced out. I ended up finding one on Lake Royale that I closed on in June. Prices there are soaring now so I lucked out. My next project there is going to build stairs to get down to the lake. Im going to give this a whirl

I havent worked with ipe before but picked some up at a wood shop and couldnt believe how heavy it was. What is the projected life span of it as a horizontal deck surface? Will it turn gray or anything?
Hey Bill -
The Ipe is incredible dense - I’ve heard 3x more dense than white oak and it is very heavy. Almost feels equivalent to stone in weight. As for the color, I did some stairs from land to our dock in Ipe and we keep the nice red/brown color by applying a light coat of oil. It’s very simple to apply and keeps the wood looking beautiful. The good thing however, you don’t need to treat it if you like the grey color if left untreated. It will still last a lifetime and you can bring the color back in the future with a power wash and a coat of oil.
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tarheelz

Dave
Corporate Member
@Ralrick , if you're not completely tired of us yet, will you be sure to send pictures of the final project using the Camo system? I need to convince myself that 3/16" will work and you are just the person to convince me! (In the alternative to get a closer fit, I think I would go with surface nailing with plugs.)
 

Ralrick

New User
Rick
@Ralrick , if you're not completely tired of us yet, will you be sure to send pictures of the final project using the Camo system? I need to convince myself that 3/16" will work and you are just the person to convince me! (In the alternative to get a closer fit, I think I would go with surface nailing with plugs.)
Dave - here are a few pics of the finished deck but we have not put down the oil on it yet. Really nice rich brown/red tones come out after applying a coat of oil based on our past experience. I’m really happy with the 3/16” spacing and the Camo screws are almost undetectable unless you are specifically looking for them.

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Ralrick

New User
Rick
Looks awesome Rick! how many SF ? what did you use to cut it with?
Hey Chris - the deck is about 900sq ft. with about 300sq ft covered by a deck above and 600 exposed. Even with direct sun in these 90*+ days, the Ipe is still cool enough to walk on with bare feet and was one of the reasons we chose this product over a synthetic.

For cutting, standard carbide tipped blades in both a miter saw and I also used a portable TS to cut 3/8”deep kerfs in the bottom of each board trying to prevent any cupping issues. For a few notches in corners, a jigsaw was used. The wood cuts very clean. I did use a 3/8” round over bit for the edge of any rip cuts and waxed the end grain of each board to reduce splits on the ends. Hope that helps. Rick
 

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