Installing baseboard

[JimD]

My workshop addition has reached the "good by to the contractor" stage leaving me with finish carpentry to do. I already did most of the finish electrical. (Trying to save money) I have the trim on order and will pick it up Friday and work through the weekend on installation. It is two rooms, one a bedroom, of about 600 square feet. I work slowly but should get at least most of it done this weekend. I'm trying to get the bedroom done in time for use over Thanksgiving (the girls are coming home from college).

Anyway, how far off the subfloor would you put the baseboard? I've seen it hard on the subfloor but I don't like that since it seems like it wastes part of the baseboard profile. The bedroom will probably be carpeted (if we can get it installed in time) and the other room will probably be hardwood. If I put down hardwood, I would like to do that first and put the baseboard over it and not do the quarter round. But for carpet, how high off the subfloor would you put it? I like the edges of the carpet to be tucked under the baseboard although I know that will result in some damage to my new baseboard.

Still to come will be sorting out the shop garage. For now I moved some of the tools in and have been using it without any cabinets, shelving, or tables. Not like my old shop but it's nice to at least have the tools available.

Comments?

 

[Berta]

I always add the baseboard last on hardwood and include small quarter round. I have never done basboard with carpet although I don't think it includes quarter round.

 

[Hmerkle]

Jim,
The best thing to do is to install the carpet, then the baseboard.
depending on the padding and carpet thickness you have a moving target for the baseboard height (if you want it above the carpet line - which I agree with.)

As Berta pointed out - then you come back with a 1/4 round or something to "dress" the carpet edge.

Last, if you put the baseboard in first, it WILL be damaged by the carpet installers - even the great one I had, put a number of dents in mine...

 

[JohnnyR]

Just finished game room. installed baseboard 1/2". Installers scratched it up but just went around the room with touch-up paint. If you install it last, you'll have to paint next to carpet. I built a walnut bar cabinet and unfortunately didn't leave a gap at the bottom. Carpet meets it ok but they scratched up the side and bowed the toe-kick (3/16" solid veneer) 1/2" might not work if you have a very tight weave office type carpet. Ask the installer if you have a question.

 

[McRabbet]

I would cut all of the baseboard pieces, dry fit and prefinish them. Then mark their locations and set aside until the carpet is installed. It will be easy to finish nail them at their final heights with a brad nailer and to fill any nail holes.

 

[JohnnyR]

Don't forget that it needs to be caulked and painted over the caulk (which will yellow). Brads should be at least 2".

 

[JimD]

Thanks for all the input. I am leaning towards JohnnyR's method but appreciate other thoughts. What I've done before is to put a coat of finish over the primed baseboard, then install it, caulk it if I get time, then wait until after carpet installation to go back and touch up nail holes, caulk, and any other blemish. I think the initial coat of finish makes it much quicker and easier than trying to paint it in place. I know that isn't the way the "pros" do it but I still think it's best. I already painted the walls for a similar reason - it's easier and quicker without the trim installed. Hardest part is covering the caulk with paint. I have some "Duo-sil" caulk that I might try. It's an urathane caulk that is noticably thicker and stickier than the latex based I ususally use. It probably still needs the paint, however.

With respect to nailing, I will use either my 16 gauge pneumatic finish nailer with 2 inch nails or my much newer 18 gauge Ryobi cordless brad nailer with 2 inch. I really like the Ryobi and the lack of a pneumatic hose but I don't like the easy deflection of the thin 18 gauge brads. I also have a pneumatic brad nailer but it has the same issue. Wood grain sometimes will deflect the brad. I don't like filling bigger holes either, of course. I'll have both in the room and will see how it goes (casing is 1 inch at the outside so I need 2 1/2 nails for it which only the finish nailer will do).

 

[DaveD]

Putting the baseboard down after the carpet is installed is going to make the next carpet installer very unhappy.
Hardwood floors should go under the baseboard and any door casings. Hence they are typically installed first.
Hardwood floors typically use shoe moulding instead of quarter round.
I've NEVER seen shoe moulding or quarter round used with carpet.
Doing things out of sequence sometimes makes a downstream task harder.
Whats caulk? Oh yeah, it's that stuff used by the case to hide imperfections (with the exception of nail holes and a few other exceptions) by your builders that choose to not pay attention to the details.

 

[FredP]

use a piece of baseboard as a gauge. the thickness of the base puts you at the perfect height off the floor for carpet to tuck under. if hardwood do that first and use shoe mold as mentioned above.

 

[JimD]

Why shoe mold? If the hardwoods go down first, the baseboard can overlap them and the shoe mold serves no purpose. I only see a purpose for it if the base goes down first or the flooring cuts are too sloppy for 1/2 inch baseboard to hide.

 

[FredP]

Why shoe mold? If the hardwoods go down first, the baseboard can overlap them and the shoe mold serves no purpose. I only see a purpose for it if the base goes down first or the flooring cuts are too sloppy for 1/2 inch baseboard to hide.

mainly because the flooring wont be perfectly flat, no matter how hard you try. base boards won't bend enough to conform with the floor. shoe molding will give enough to hide any gaps. if you don't want shoe you can scribe the base to the floor but that will get old in a hurry.

 

[JimD]

We priced hardwood and carpet last night and decided to do the whole area in hardwood. A little more money and more work for me. Carpet was about $2/ft2 for the materials but I don't install carpet so that would push it up closer to $2.50 and the extra material losses even higher (the room is 13'8" but even with 15 foot wide carpet you waste over a foot at the edge, with 12 foot the waste is even higher). So cost gets up close to $3/bd ft. We found some finished 3/4 oak at Southeastern Salvage for less than $3/bd ft. But I will need a nailer, nails and rosin paper. But still the cost is in the same ballpark - with me installing the hardwood. I'm planning to buy the HF flooring nailer with a 20% off coupon and use nails (or cleats). I have finish nailers for the starting rows.

But that means getting the flooring now and putting it down before the trim. I'll get the flooring for the whole area but install the bedroom first and do its trim before putting flooring down in the larger room. I have to take up existing hardwood in that room and also the subfloor in areas to be sure it is insulated. I am pretty sure the builder didn't do it all. So that is unlikely to be done by Thanksgiving but the bedroom should be. (the other area was a bedroom but it had 5 foot walls at the outside where the ceiling was following the 10 in 12 pitch of the roof, we had dormers installed to open up the whole area leaving 5 foot strips on each side of the room with subfloor but no flooring and not insulated undernieth. I asked the builder to insulate but I already know one area is not insulated)

I'll wait to decide on the shoe molding until after I get the floor down and baseboard installed. I plan to space the flooring from the walls about 1/4 inch so the baseboard will cover the gap. FredP raises a good point about flatness of floor and straightness of baseboard. It might be OK but it also might not. Adding shoe will not change cost or schedule too much if it's necessary.

 

[chris_goris]

I'm planning to buy the HF flooring nailer with a 20% off coupon and use nails (or cleats).

DONT DO IT! just rent one, you'll be sorry...

 

[JimD]

Well I bought it last night. Why do you think I'll be sorry. Reviews are good. I have an inexpensive stapler for thin floors, less than 1/2 inch thick, that I got off Amazon. It isn't perfect but worked fine to put down about 700 ft2 last year. I should know tomorrow night how well the HF nailer for normal 3/4 flooring works. Out of the box, it looks fine. I assembled it and loaded it with nails but didn't try it last night - got late.

 

[Skymaster]

DO NOT INSTALL THAT FLOORING TIGHT TO THE WALLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Leave at least 3/8" gap. The wood WILL expand and contract. Hence the reason for shoe. Pre finish the trim, Make a map of the stud locations! Ie blue tape, a number from the corner to first ,however, but now is the time to prevent total exasperation in the future :} Dont ask how I know this :}:}:}. If you do not already know how to COPE, I will be glad to teach you. The 3 most important things for installing base are: COPE COPE COPE. Crown has same rules :}:} NOTE: when putting shoe down, NAIL SHOE TO THE BASEBOARD NOT REPEAT NOT TO THE FLOOR.

 

[DaveD]

Follow skymasters advice. Also if you are going to stain and poly the shoe do it before you even cut your first piece. Wipi the stain on with a rag. Done in 15 minutes. Do the same with the poly. Then as you cut the pieces hit the cut ends with a stain rag.

Measure the whole room at one time. Indicate your angles. Go cut all the pieces at the same time. Distribute them around the room(s). Nail them down. Take colored putty and fill in nail holes. Poly one more time if you like that kind of punishment. Once you put all the furniture back you will be lucky if you see 20% of the shoe moulding.

There was a time I made decent money just doing shoe moulding. Really liked that job.

 

[CrealBilly]

My son in law installs carpet. He has told about several occasions where when using the stretcher the wall moved. Hope that does not happen to you but be sure and checks for cracks in the wall and doors and windows still function as before you had your carpet installed - it's not uncommon especially in new homes. Don't be surprised if you precut and dry fit your base that it doesn't fit exactly like it did when you dry fitted it.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

 

[Skymaster]

Follow skymasters advice. Also if you are going to stain and poly the shoe do it before you even cut your first piece. Wipi the stain on with a rag. Done in 15 minutes. Do the same with the poly. Then as you cut the pieces hit the cut ends with a stain rag.

Measure the whole room at one time. Indicate your angles. Go cut all the pieces at the same time. Distribute them around the room(s). Nail them down. Take colored putty and fill in nail holes. Poly one more time if you like that kind of punishment. Once you put all the furniture back you will be lucky if you see 20% of the shoe moulding.

There was a time I made decent money just doing shoe moulding. Really liked that job.

I hated shoe Spent 25 plus yrs as a trimmer, STILL dont like installing shoe :rotflm: The secret to shoe? Hire a helper and make it his world LOL LOL LOL

 

[DaveD]

I sure wouldn't blame the carpet installer for shoddy framing techniques that lets walls move. On the other hand I wouldn't expect the carpet installer to bang the crap out of my base moulding either. Maybe, and that's a maybe, I'd let him get away with two baseboard dents in the whole house.

As to the trim changing dimensions, that's why you give it a week or so to get acclimated to the environment it's going to be installed in.

 

[JimD]

Well I picked up the flooring Thursday evening and the molding Friday morning. It took me the rest of Friday and Saturday morning to lay less than 250 bd ft. of floor. I had to pull the oak from the other room before I could lay the floor through the doorway to install the door. I started with my daughters bedroom so she can use it over Thanksgiving. I finally got enough old oak up late afternoon Sunday and could put a couple more pieces of the Hickory flooring in and then the door. It's a pre-hung so it went pretty fast. I hope I didn't get it too close to the light switch. But it closes and swings properly.

Next on the "minimum occupancy list" according to her mother is the closet, then baseboard and finally window trim. The closet doors were supposed to be a big pre-hung with double 30 inch doors but came as slabs. So that will take more time. Closet rod and shelf should take only a few minutes (but surprises occur).

So I'm still working my way up to the baseboard. I plan to paint the door and probably some more trim tonight. I like to get a coat of finish on over the prime before handing it. I didn't do that on the door so painting will take longer. They stapled the heck out of it anyway, so painting was going to take more time regardless. Base should be easy to touch up and edge over the caulk if I get a coat on it. I'd be more confident of being done if it wasn't that the wife wants to go to a Clemson game Saturday. It will be down to the wire.