I need dust collection...

Chris C

Chris
Senior User
I have fought it for the longest time but I really need to set up a collection system.

I was thinking a portable cyclone that I can roll around the shop. But also thinking about adding a lean-to shelter to my shop.... I have a 12' wide pad on one side that runs the full length. If I do that I could build a dedicated "closet" and put it outside.

Can you run a flexible hose from an outside collector and still get decent performance? I really don't want to install pipe on the walls inside unless absolutely necessary.
 

SteveHall

Steve
Corporate Member
Hard pipe will have a lot less friction. Can you hard pipe to a central ceiling location and use flex from there moved to each machine as you need it?
 

McRabbet

Rob
Corporate Member
You will achieve the best dust collection with a larger cyclone and hard pipe to blast gates near your machines. Flexible duct has tenfold higher static pressure loss when compared to hard pipe -- I have a ClearVue Cyclone CV-1800 with 6" thin wall PVC for a highly efficient system. It could go in a closet under a lean-to roof to keep it out of the weather and such a location would reduce the sound impact as well.
 

Oka

Board of Directors, Vice President
Casey
Staff member
Corporate Member
You can roll a cyclone system around and hook up as needed. But, this really only good for the occasional user. (I did this starting out with a 650 cfm Jet cyclone). But, at a certain point you need to step up.
Depending on the size of your room you can make a pretty easy system cheaply.

I ll assume it is a 20 x 20 garage room. Setting up on each aide a trunk line with "T"'s in it say 3 mounted 54"off the floor horizontally will limit the friction loss you get with flex. Flex does not have a 10 fold static loss, for calculation in HVAC we use 1.15 add to 1.45 depending on the run , brand and how it is installed. That said, that is a huge difference in low pressure cfm flow systems. Less than 10 ft of flex has a minimal impact as to friction loss in the system.
Anyway, if you can set 2 trunks on each side, then you can either work the tools on one side and move the unit to the other side and hook up or, you set the unit in the middle of the back wall and pipe it in.
All the Tees will need a Shutting gates you can but that way or you can actually buy caps or plugs for them. Depends on what you want. The one thing I would recommend, beginning from the attaching flex and all the way back to the vaccuum, do not change the pipe dia, unless you are REALLY good at air distribution calcs.

Vacuuming/dust collection has a cfm consideration and a neg static pressure (pull) consideration. Do not just look at cfm will solve all problems. There is more to it than that. But, the above simple system will get you by for a long time before you decide you want/need to go all in.

Hope that helps.
 

Rwe2156

DrBob
Senior User
Can’t advise without knowing what machines, size if shop, and layout.

A drawing would be nice!

Generally speaking, unless your shop is very small, you will not be satisfied with a mobile unit. The connecting/un connecting every time gets old.
 

Wiley's Woodworks

Wiley
Corporate Member
I'm at the same decision point for both a whole-shop dust collection system and a compressed air system. I will have to mount the compressor and the collector outside due to lack of floor space inside. I'm looking into plastic garden sheds to protect the units from weather and muffle the noise. The sheds are so close in price to the lumber/hardware costs to stick build a shed. I would rather spend the build time making something nice in my shop.
 

tvrgeek

Scott
User
Thinking about moving mine outside, but due to the number of wasps, I would stick build it so it could be screened and wasp proof.
CV 1800 and will soon be converting to 6 inch PVC with the TS duct and power whips under the slab. Big job, but it is just in the way any other route.
 

Rushton

Rush
Senior User
I'm with McRabbet on this topic of flex hose vs. solid pipe. In the two shops in which I've installed a Clear Vue CV1800 (or CVMAX most recently), I try to run 6" solid pipe as close to each machine as I possibly can. For flex hose, I'll only use smooth wall flex that doesn't have exposed ribs inside. Bill Pentz's dust collection design advice (Dust Collection Research - Ducting) has consistently been my guide for dust collection (along with advice from Alan in Little Washington and McRabbet on this forum) and have never regretted following the advice from these three sources.

I can't offer measurements, but I have been very pleased with the results in both shops.
 

Chris C

Chris
Senior User
PXL_20210726_013109953.jpg
 

Chris C

Chris
Senior User
Other than convenience is there any real benefit to a stationary system as opposed to a mobile system? I don't see any but there may be something I don't understand.
 

SteveHall

Steve
Corporate Member
Other than convenience is there any real benefit to a stationary system as opposed to a mobile system? I don't see any but there may be something I don't understand.

There are many levels of dust collection systems, but a good cyclone that really cleans both large and microscopic particles out of the air is too large and heavy to move around. They also typically need 3-phase power or 240V, so larger than an extension cord. These typically have large collection drums and filters, too. Oh, and they're loud.

I helped Bill Pentz with his web site a bit, so I may be a little biased, but Clear Vue seems to be both a good value and good scientifically at removing particulates <5 µm. These are the particulates respirable to lung alveoli. For reference, smoke particulates are 0.1–1.0 µm and the good ol' C-19 virus is 0.06–0.14 µm, so clearly we're talking very tiny. Nothing portable is going to get those if you care.

I don't have one of these. I wish I did, but a good installed system with duct, drops, and gates will start at $5k. For now I just have a roll-around Jet that works okay immediately adjacent a tool, but portable dust collection gets quite tedious after a while if you work between multiple stations. The Harbor Freight conversion with Thien baffle is pretty well reputed, too. There's some advantage with portable in that ultra-short duct runs minimize static pressure loss, but nothing beats a 1,800 CFM+ out-of-shop collector sucked through 6" hard pipe to each tool.
 

Rushton

Rush
Senior User
As Steve says, it your only goal is to collect the chips that might otherwise fall on the floor, then a roll about system will accomplish your goal. But if you are focused on your long term health as a woodworker, you need to be aware of the microscopic dust that floats in the air and you inhale into your lungs. Over time, this can have very bad health outcomes.

To capture this fine dust, you need very high air flow right at the blade where these particles are tremendous speed. This is where the larger, more powerful, 5 HP and larger stationary systems come into play. It is why I've now twice invested in installing the Clear Vue CV1800 and CVMAX systems in two different shops.

I encourage you to read some of Bill Pentz's information. Landing in the hospital due to dust inhalation over time is what put him on his journey to find effective dust collection for his home shop and why he's been trying to educate fellow woodworkers ever since. As good starting points, look at his Dust Collection Basics Blog and then move onto his more in depth discussions at his main site.
 

JimD

Jim
Senior User
I am sure it doesn't get all the dust but I am happy with my 2hp HF blower mounted to the wall on top of a super dust deputy which sits on top of a home made 70 gallon dust bin and discharges outside. The dust bin fills pretty quickly when I am running the planner or jointer. On a portable system, the dust bin will be much smaller and fill in minutes if you are running the planner. I run 5 inch snap lock to my PCS, CMS and most of the way to my bandsaw. I have another drop with a 28 foot flex hose I connect to the planner or jointer or router table. It does surprisingly well getting the chips from the planner. I have gates on each drop and try to only have one open at a time - it makes a noticable difference if two are open.

My setup occupies about a 18 by 18 inch square space in the corner of my shop. Orienting things vertically helps a lot with space requirement. Your shop is bigger than mine, mine is only 14x24.

Whatever you do do not run a DC with poor filters. The bags the HF unit came with, for instance, discharges the fine dust that is a health hazard. If you filter you need to use at least the best bags you can find and a cartridge filter is better. Discharging outside works for me because my shop is not heated or cooled. There is no visible dust on the bushes near the exhaust as long as I do not overfill the bin. Running a DC with coarse filtration just circulates the fine dust making it more likely you inhale it and allowing it to coat every horizontal surface in your shop. Been there, done that, and won't do it again.

I do not want to be critical to anybody with a really nice big DC but not everybody knows that Bill Pentz has unusually high sensitivities to dust, household as well as wood. Some of us feel that our bodies are built to handle reasonable levels of dust. I try to keep my shop no dustier than the outside air. That is not good enough to protect Bill's health - so he needs better collection. How good is good enough is difficult to define for dust collection. But some is definitely better than none.
 

Chris C

Chris
Senior User
I really appreciate the suggestions. They more I read and think the more inclined I am to go with a mobile setup. I was strongly leaning that way to start with anyway. I had even considered hanging a wall unit beside each tool.

I'm certainly not a high volume shop and still tend to do a large percentage of my work with hand tools.

I was also thinking of hanging an air filter for the fine particulates.
 

Fred J

Fred
User
You just missed a heck of a deal in the for sale section of this forum. A member was giving away a HF dust collector with nothing wrong with it. He’s just upgrading. A deal like that would have given you options with no investment other than a good filter.

I installed dust collection in my garage workshop and it’s been great. It’s not loud and I don’t have to wear hearing protection when it’s on and the table saw is running. I think my setup is the same as Jim’s, mounted vertically. I also run an overhead filtration system and the fine dust has disappeared.

I don’t think you can go wrong with either decision you make. You could start with a rolling system and over time, acquire the piping and other equipment you need.
 

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