How I kick start a commission

Willemjm

Willem
Corporate Member
First, visit the customer, try and understand as best as possible what is needed.

Follow up with a rough budget range and gauge how serious the enquirer is, likely order or not.

If I think it is going to happen, spend maximum of 1 1/2 hours on a drawing model and send to the customer.

Wait for further input, tweak design with firm quotation.

30% Paid with order and balance with delivery.

Below is the next job, we are at the waiting for further input stage, a bar cabinet with space for a refrigerator.

Anyone want to guess the budget?

6E2A3A09-16EE-4D85-9544-E3E1DEF52289.jpeg
 

drw

Donn
Corporate Member
Okay, Willem, I'll take a shot...$1,500? With that figure in play, I'll confess that I have never been very good at estimating how much time a project will take or how much it will ultimately cost me. By the way, I am impressed with your SketchUp skills. I have tinkered with the program several times. While I never truly master it, I do get better....however, since I only use it sporadically, the next time I go back to it I have to start the learning curve anew.
 

TB2

New User
Kent
My cost would be 2500-3000. Depending on finish and customer suppling knobs,handles.
 

Bear Republic

Steve
Corporate Member
Price is Right time..... $4500..... I went high because you are a true craftsman and produce beautiful pieces of art(furniture). Just out of curiosity, how long did it take for you to make the model and what did you use, Sketchup? Do you start from scratch or with "building blocks" already created? I've just started working with Sketchup for project planning and trying to figure out the design process.
 

Graywolf

Board of Directors, President
Richard
Staff member
Corporate Member
I’d be somewhere between 4500 and 6000, and that’s shooting from the hip.
 

Skymaster

New User
Jack
ballpark 5000 plus a maybe 6000 material not cheap, staining,finishing etc, am now thunking 6 may be too low
 

Willemjm

Willem
Corporate Member
LOL, you folks are expensive, perhaps that is why I am overloaded.

To answer some questions, the mock up was done in Solidworks, and for complex items I normally do Parametric designs (Each individual part is done in 3D and then the entire job is assembled on the computer so we find out if something does not fit right before we cut wood), but this is a simple job, so I used the software to just produce the graphic as fast as possible. That took me around 1 1/2 hours to do.

The piece is actually simple case work, kitchen cabinet construction, with some fancy trim thrown in, so it is not a lot of work. I have not priced out the materials yet, but think it will be somewhere between $2,500 - $3,000 for the customer.

Thanks for all the input and thank to Sky, he always gives good advice on the side!
 

Graywolf

Board of Directors, President
Richard
Staff member
Corporate Member
It’s economy’s of scale, however looking at your location I’d say you are leaving money on the table. I’m not trying to tell you what to do.
 

TB2

New User
Kent
As Willem said. Simple casework. Kitchen cabinets on bottom. Do this everyday. You can make it all on one or have repeat customers. I like repeat. Might be why we 8-10 months out.
 

Skymaster

New User
Jack
too low :cool: :cool: :) absolutely leaving alot on the table. ROFLMAO Willem, looking at all the posts, good sir you have been OUT VOTED price wise lol l;ol lol Take Phils number as avg 5200.00 right in the middle and a fair price.
 
Last edited:

McRabbet

Rob
Corporate Member
I must agree with others that your $2,500 - $3,000 is low -- I would be in the $4,500 - $4,800 area, close to Phil's estimate. I assume you are using some A-A White Oak Plywood for the side panels and shelving and solid wood for the cabinet top, face frames, doors and molding.
 

Willemjm

Willem
Corporate Member
I must agree with others that your $2,500 - $3,000 is low -- I would be in the $4,500 - $4,800 area, close to Phil's estimate. I assume you are using some A-A White Oak Plywood for the side panels and shelving and solid wood for the cabinet top, face frames, doors and molding.
Yep you got it.
I do a lot of work for a large cabinet company, who design, buy and install. When they have a size they cannot fit, it comes my way. I know their prices and I know the prices of those who compete with me. A few small shops beat my prices to the extent that it is not worth it. Most are booked out to 12 weeks though, I try to deliver 3-4 weeks, so I still get lots of urgent jobs.

In short, I have good idea of what others price.

I probably get around five requests for cabinet doors every day, if they say “paint grade” I don’t eve try and refer them to someone else, as there is no way I can compete. There is a guy in Ohio who does it for around $10 a square foot, one man shop, around $12,000 a month. Don’t know how he does it.
 
Last edited:

chris_goris

Chris
Senior User
How many hours do you figure for that? Install included? or is it a free standing piece? whats the thing in the middle on the bottom?. Do they want the the shelf faceframe bottom rail across the bottom too?.
 

Willemjm

Willem
Corporate Member
How many hours do you figure for that? Install included? or is it a free standing piece? whats the thing in the middle on the bottom?. Do they want the the shelf faceframe bottom rail across the bottom too?.
Two days to build one to finish.
Wine cooler.
Free standing
Good catch on the face frame, bottom shelf will be flush, not as in the drawing.
The grain orientation in the drawing is also not right, should you have missed it.

I am set up to do these, do them almost every day, unfortunately mostly painted and designed by others.
 

chris_goris

Chris
Senior User
So, 24 hours labor? And Id say $500 for materials....1/2 days time to deliver with a helper, that thing is gonna be heavy, even as 2 pieces.
 

Willemjm

Willem
Corporate Member
So, 24 hours labor? And Id say $500 for materials....1/2 days time to deliver with a helper, that thing is gonna be heavy, even as 2 pieces.
3 piece with a base connector.
Approximately 20 hours labor. (Finishing is fast, drying times slow. Normally plan so I finish a few jobs at the same time)
Materials around $400.
Customer helps to load, unload and assemble, another 2 hours.
Retired, zero overhead.

Say ($2,800 - $400)/22 = $109 per hour.

Good enough for me, but if you are running a shop with employees and overhead, best to send the customer to Wayfair and focus on buying and installing 75% pre-fab. That is where the money is, average $20,000 per job. Not for me, very competitive business with lots of liability. Over 30k you need a General Contractors license and margin is around 35%.

At the end of the day, I believe most of this is done for the love of it. If my objective was making money, the easy way is to jump back into my old profession in a temporary or consulting role.
 
Last edited:

Premier Sponsor

Our Sponsors

LATEST FOR SALE LISTINGS

Top