Need Advice How can I glue these without squeeze-out?

[Bruce Mack]

I'm making a box with decorative elements I want to glue to the lid. The lid and the decorations have a shellac finish. I need to place the elements exactly where I want them without misregistration or slop-out. At 80 yo with Parkinson's my hand control is problematic. I propose to use the masking tape trick and CA glue to do a dry fit of the elements. When they are where I want, I will pencil their outlines and remove the decorations. I want their edges to be tight to the lid. An ideal glue would be a contact cement that I could press and clamp tight with a thin wood caul (the overlays are soft butternut) with assurance of permanent bond. I don't know if this is available to me so my second choice is PVA glue that I will apply lightly to each overlay and hand press briefly before using the caul. PVA and everything else I know is prone to slippage and squeeze out. I can deal with a little squeeze-out, I suppose, with toothpicks to remove it before it sets and by protecting the surround with a thin rim of Tru-Oil. (Tru-Oil was developed for gunstocks to resist water stains and is used now by guitar makers too. It will be will be applied to the lid after completion.)
I know it is down to me but do not want to go ahead and discover that a better method was readily available. The first photo shows the unoiled lid with the elements as intended. I included the second with a different arrangement to show the oiled shellac finish of the pine box.
Thanks.

 

[Martin Roper]

You could minimize sliding and squeeze-out by letting the glue tack up quite a bit before applying the decorations.

 

[PlaidGrain]

You may be able to do a post and hole / dowel setup to get them in the exact location where you want them. It would also minimize the amount of adhesive required.

 

[JohnnyR]

You could also carve a channel for any excess glue. Gluing to shellac has its own problems, If this is not handled roughly CA may be all you need.

 

[Mike Davis]

A tiny bit of sand will prevent slipping.

 

[Bruce Mack]

I want to thank you for your quick and helpful replies. I'll use the sand. As I can't readily find sand in Minnesota, just dirt, I have ordered a pound of white play sand from Amazon. It will arrive with my replacement coffee kettle tomorrow. I know, you can't take it with you, but there may be an exception for sand.

 

[Graywolf]

If you get caught in a pinch just use a touch of salt in place of the sand.

 

[ErnieM]

I used to have major problems with squeeze out when gluing bridges to spruce soundboards. After trying several methods to deal with the squeeze out, I finally found a solution that works for me. As you did, I place the bridge in position on the soundboard and outline its position lightly on the soundboard.
Then, I remove the bridge and, with a small, stubby paint brush, I brush a heavy coat of paste wax (I use plain old Johnson's Paste Wax) up to the pencil lines and extending out for about an inch. I then apply a good coat of Titebond to the bridge and the soundboard and clamp it in place - lightly at first, and gradually increasing the pressure to avoid slippage. The glue will squeeze out as expected, but I leave it alone until the glue has totally dried. The glue will not stick to the paste wax. Gentle persuasion with a chisel will cause the squeeze out to pop off. Then I wipe the area a couple of times to remove the wax.
Works great. Try it on the some scrap before using it on your project.

Ernie

 

[Bruce Mack]

Thanks, Ernie. You guys are great.

 

[ErnieM]

I used to have major problems with squeeze out when gluing bridges to spruce soundboards. After trying several methods to deal with the squeeze out, I finally found a solution that works for me. As you did, I place the bridge in position on the soundboard and outline its position lightly on the soundboard.
Then, I remove the bridge and, with a small, stubby paint brush, I brush a heavy coat of paste wax (I use plain old Johnson's Paste Wax) up to the pencil lines and extending out for about an inch. I then apply a good coat of Titebond to the bridge and the soundboard and clamp it in place - lightly at first, and gradually increasing the pressure to avoid slippage. The glue will squeeze out as expected, but I leave it alone until the glue has totally dried. The glue will not stick to the paste wax. Gentle persuasion with a chisel will cause the squeeze out to pop off. Then I wipe the area a couple of times to remove the wax.
Works great. Try it on the some scrap before using it on your project.

Ernie

I forgot to mention, I wipe the wood with paint thinner to remove the wax.

 

[mpeele]

A tiny bit of sand will prevent slipping.

I use salt.

 

[mpeele]

I like to use CA glue for attaching small parts without clamping. If it's a surface attachment I make a hinge with a pice of painters tape to make sure it ends up where its supposed to be.

 

[Wiley's Woodworks]

I like to use CA glue for attaching small parts without clamping. If it's a surface attachment I make a hinge with a pice of painters tape to make sure it ends up where its supposed to be.

I too like CA glue. I would use medium CA, run a small bead about 1/4" inside the border of the decorative border. Or you might just strategically place dots around the perimeter; just be sure and keep the 1/4" border to keep squeeze out under the decorative pieces. Spray it activator, then set the pieces one at a time in place. Michael's idea of using tape to locate the pieces and keep them from squirming around is brilliant. As soon as the pieces are taped in place put something heavy and flat on top of the pieces and lid to provide the pressure that CA needs for max bonding strength. Don't trust your fingertips to apply steady, no movement pressure for 60 seconds.

 

[Kirk S]

This might be a good time to use screws. I few nicely drilled brass screws from underneath the lid might solve the slippage and squeeze out issue.

 

[Bruce Mack]

All good ideas. Thank you. I drew the pencil outlines after affixing both pieces with a small amount of quick-set PVA centrally using finger pressure for a couple of minutes (the CA glue with tape and activator did not work for me possibly because the overlays were not flat enough). The overlays were then popped off with a thin putty knife. Then I applied PVA to the whole surface of one overlay and kept it from the edge as best I could. Adding a bit of sand, I pressed the piece to the lid using the penciled outline to locate it. When it tacked up, I put the lid and overlay vertically in my Record vise and squeezed it between the wooden jaw faces. I got a bit of squeeze out in several places that I removed with a toothpick. I flipped the sandwich and tried to get all edges under pressure eventually. One edge came away from the lid after the glue had substantially dried. This was an "oh, s*** " moment. I wicked some CA glue into the gap and selectively clamped the edge in the vise. I thought of spraying activator but held off, worried what it might do to the shellac. The edge held when I later released the vise. The second overlay was much easier as it registered against the first and I brushed the PVA more evenly this time. I also let the glue tack up longer, as Martin suggested. I'm happy with the result.
I used 0000# steel wool to mute the gloss of the overlays and then applied Tru-Oil to only the flat lid with a cloth-like fiber rag, many drops of mineral spirits to just 2 drops of oil. Jameel Abraham in his Benchcrafted Blog article, Why You Should Be Using Tru-Oil advised very thin coats for a beautiful lustrous finish. I don't work at his level but I love this finish. I'll try to post a couple of photos tomorrow. The box is a gift for a 10 y.o. girl, to whom I am an honorary great-uncle.

 

[Bruce Mack]

It's done

 

[AllanD]

Like Ernie said try wax. There was an article some years ago by Michael Fortune, probably in Fine Woodworking, where he described using wax to solve glue sqeezeout. We all first thought oh no that will mess up the finish but he showed that cleaning it off works fine. I would think the technique would work easier on wood that is not ring porous though.

If you elect to use tape, there is masking tape used in automobile painting that is very fine and tight edged for such applications.

 

[ChemE75]

I like the CA glue idea. With shellac coatings in place, it should adhere really well. For registration, consider double side taping small pieces of wood, mdf, plastic, etc around the perimeter so you can essentially just drop it in place, doesn’t need to be continuous pieces, just enough in strategic positions to keep overlay from slipping, then press to hold until glue sets which isn’t very long.

 

[ChemE75]

It's done

Looks like all worked out well. I like tru-oil as well and thinning does make it easier to apply. I found in SoFL the heat really made it thicken up and cure very quickly. I wanted to use it on the guitar but we had to move so just went with watco to get some finish on it before packing. I finally used tru oil on a small item and it looked great. One of these days I’ll top coat the guitar. I believe it is their proprietary blend of tung oil, varnish and solvents. I got the SDS somewhere as rough guide to trying my own blend when I run out.

 

[Bruce Mack]

Looks like all worked out well. I like tru-oil as well and thinning does make it easier to apply. I found in SoFL the heat really made it thicken up and cure very quickly. I wanted to use it on the guitar but we had to move so just went with watco to get some finish on it before packing. I finally used tru oil on a small item and it looked great. One of these days I’ll top coat the guitar. I believe it is their proprietary blend of tung oil, varnish and solvents. I got the SDS somewhere as rough guide to trying my own blend when I run out.

I think I recall that the formula is brought to a high temperature as well before it is bottled. It dries to touch in an hour here.