Holly tree. - Milling and drying

[TENdriver]

I have a chance to get a standing Holly tree that is supposed to be 12" x 30' tall.

I've heard holly is hard to dry without ending up with blue stain. Given its springtime, I assume this is wet wood.

I could find a use for 2" to 3" turning billets. Not sure you could get any flat stock from a tree that small.

Is this something with enough yield that it's worth getting a sawyer or mobile mill to process?

Also, could it dry in my garage or basement without staining or does it need to go to a kiln?

 

[KenOfCary]

Contact Jack in Rolesville with those questions. I know he has had Holly without blue streaks in the past (I bought some from him) so is familiar with the process and the issues. He also has a portable mill so could advise on the feasibility of that aspect as well.

He is Saw4You on the site and has been on a few times lately, but is usually infrequent in his posts so I would PM him.

 

[kelLOGg]

I have milled, air dried and kiln-dried holly (only once) without any bluing or other issues. It was close to 10 years ago and I don't remember how long I air dried it but it was probably a year because it was with a lot of oak. The remainder of the unused holly has been in my barn ever since. Here's a pic - a little dusty, never been planed. The yellow-looking boards on the left were not dusted. I think their appearance would be greatly improved by planing.
Bob

 

[CrealBilly]

I've sawed a few Holly logs. All the lumber turned yellow except the last log. The difference was I milled the lumber from the last log undercover, transported and stacked it during the evening. So my conclusion is... if you make lumber from a holly log in direct sunlight, the sunlight will cause the lumber to yellow. Like shown in the picture above to the left. However if the lumber never sees sunlight chances of it yellowing are greatly reduced as shown in the pic above to the right.

FYI... I gave all my yellow Holly lumber away since I considered it defective due to yellowing. No one really wants to pay for yellow Holly lumber...

Read more here and good luck --->http://www.aawforum.org/vbforum/showthread.php?7008-Holly-How-to-keep-it-white-after-cutting

 

[Jeff]

Wondering....?

Are the blue and/or yellow discolorations just surface stuff? Snow white after planing to remove the discoloration...let it sit awhile and the discolorations return?

 

[CrealBilly]

Wondering....?

Are the blue and/or yellow discolorations just surface stuff? Snow white after planing to remove the discoloration...let it sit awhile and the discolorations return?

My experience is with Holly turning yellow i never had any of the little i sawed blue stain. Yellowing was completely throughout the lumber. If it were just surface that would have been fine but it wasn't. The pic that was posted above is a perfect example of what I experienced both yellowing to the left and white to the right.

Like I said I believe it has something to do with sun light... So basically when I didn't let Holly see the light of day it remained white as snow.

Also Holly is stacked full of knots - not what I would call high grade lumber to begin with. But if you can cut around the knots for short clear pieces - your good to go.

The lumber is more like plastic that wood to me. It can be brought to a ultra high sheen with just a scraper - sand paper would only make matters worse.

 

[TENdriver]

All, thanks for the replies. Doesn't sound too promising.

 

[scsmith42]

I have a chance to get a standing Holly tree that is supposed to be 12" x 30' tall.

I've heard holly is hard to dry without ending up with blue stain. Given its springtime, I assume this is wet wood.

I could find a use for 2" to 3" turning billets. Not sure you could get any flat stock from a tree that small.

Is this something with enough yield that it's worth getting a sawyer or mobile mill to process?

Also, could it dry in my garage or basement without staining or does it need to go to a kiln?

The industry standard procedure for holly is:

1: Cut the logs in the middle of a cold winter.
2: Mill them ASAP (preferably within 3-4 days of felling)
3: kiln dry the wood immediately.

 

[Jeff]

Doesn't sound too promising.

That's it in a nut shell. Nonetheless, if you don't experiment there's nothing gained and nothing learned.

I could find a use for 2" to 3" turning billets.

Go for it...

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Drying_Holly.html

 

[kelLOGg]

I planed several pieces of the holly and they all came out rather uniform in color, even those that appeared yellow in my first post. Take a look; they are not as white as the piece of white printer paper but do they pass muster for a job requiring holly? It is my first holly so I don't know what to expect.
Bob

 

[CrealBilly]

I planed several pieces of the holly and they all came out rather uniform in color, even those that appeared yellow in my first post. Take a look; they are not as white as the piece of white printer paper but do they pass muster for a job requiring holly? It is my first holly so I don't know what to expect.
Bob

I would say not really... people expect Holly to be snow white. Holly is every expensive ($30.00 a BF for 4/4 with a 30% average waste factor) and in order to ask the going price it really needs to be snow white. So just to put this into perspective a 4/4 X 6" wide X 8' long piece of Holly is 4 BF and would sell for $120.00. But the person that bought that board would only expect 70% usable lumber and in short narrow pieces due to the large number of knots in Holly.

See ---> http://www.hearnehardwoods.com/hardwoods/pricelist/pricelist.html#holly

I know - I had the exact same issue with my Holly lumber yellowing and was very disappointed... I chalked it up to a learning experience.

But you did right by sawing through and through. Holly is such a small diameter tree it's about the only thing you can do to get the most lumber from the log.

Also reference ---> http://www.hearnehardwoods.com/hardwoods/exotic_hardwoods/domestic_wood/holly_lumber/holly_wood.html

Bear in mind I'm no expert here... I've sawed very little Holly... But I'm just sharing my experiences so hopefully folks can learn by my mistakes. I mean if you can figure out a method for sawing and drying Holly to where it would be snow white you stand to make it into a good business. The risk is high but the rewards are also high.

 

[CrealBilly]

The industry standard procedure for holly is:

1: Cut the logs in the middle of a cold winter.
2: Mill them ASAP (preferably within 3-4 days of felling)
3: kiln dry the wood immediately.

Yes sir this makes perfect sense and if it were me... I would also saw, sticker and load the kiln at night to avoid any chance of sunlight yellowing the lumber. After the lumber is dry I furthermore would avoid any sunlight. As you know sunlight just has a way of darkening lumber. Cherry being a perfect example.

 

[kelLOGg]

So, fell at night, mill at night, dry at night - how do we know that holly is really white?
(Hey, that could be a song)

Seriously though, would some post pics of successfully dried holly? Scott, got holly?
Bob

 

[Matt Furjanic]

Scott Smith is right on. The thing that causes the discoloring is the fermentation of the sap before it is dry. The sooner it is dry, the less discoloration. Cut it in the coldest part of winter, and get it cut and put in the kiln immediately. Also, covering boards with rock salt will draw out the moisture faster, ensuring a whiter result.

 

[TENdriver]

Jeff, the tree isn't mine or on a friends land so I have to deal with a stranger to get it.

Right now, I'm deeply involved in my "Old Salem" style bench build so I'll see how the weekend shakes out.

 

[CrealBilly]

Scott Smith is right on. The thing that causes the discoloring is the fermentation of the sap before it is dry. The sooner it is dry, the less discoloration. Cut it in the coldest part of winter, and get it cut and put in the kiln immediately. Also, covering boards with rock salt will draw out the moisture faster, ensuring a whiter result.

I was curious about that statement and found this thread ---> http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=2534.0

 

[CrealBilly]

Also have a look here ---> http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/usda/ah528.pdf page 71 about salt drying... ( Chemical Seasoning) basicly it's problematic.

 

[scsmith42]

So, fell at night, mill at night, dry at night - how do we know that holly is really white?
(Hey, that could be a song)

Seriously though, would some post pics of successfully dried holly? Scott, got holly?
Bob

Hi Bob, unfortunately no holly. Good explnation by Matt about the cause of the discoloration.

 

[Rick M]

I cut and dry some for my own use. Don't know what commercial holly looks like but some of mine is lighter than others. Blue staining I got was in and near the pith, I assumed it was mineral straining. I cut the pith out anyway so no problem. Go for it. Even if not the ideal color I bet you find uses for it. The more yellow holly is the color of old ivory, I like it.




-- Rick M