Hollow Chisel Mortiser or Domino Jointer

[Grit12Gauge]

I enjoy the challenge of cutting and making mortise and tenons by hand, but I’m a perfectionist and I have a lot of slop in the joints. I would love to be able to make perfect M&T joints and have looked into a stand alone hollow chisel mortise machine and a festool domino jointer. I know both have pros and cons and both are roughly the same prices. Any suggestions as to which would be most used in a shop? Thanks!

 

[Martin Roper]

I enjoy the challenge of cutting and making mortise and tenons by hand, but I’m a perfectionist and I have a lot of slop in the joints. I would love to be able to make perfect Morris and tenon joints and have looked into a stand alone hollow chisel mortise machine and a festool domino jointer. I know both have pros and cons and both are roughly the same prices. Any suggestions as to which would be most used in a shop? Thanks!

I'm saving my pennies for a domino. I think you'd use the heck out of one.

 

[LB75]

Sounds like the Domino would be the way to go. The hollow chisel mortiser does a great job of cutting a clean mortise but then you're still left to properly size the tenon if you're looking for a perfect fit. I also think the Domino is a whole lot more flexible in the applications you can use it for, like for instance, extremely fast and precise mortises when building cabinets.

 

[chris_goris]

I have both... I havent used the chisel mortiser in years. Cant foresee ever using it again. I dont like paying for dominos however. Would like to buy a slightly used Delta chisel mortiser?

 

[Bill Clemmons]

Even w/ a hollow chisel mortiser you still have to clean up the mortise w/ a hand chisel. The mortiser leaves rough sides. The key to a tight fitting M&T is the tenon. After cutting the mortise, cut the tenon a little fat and then sneak up on a tight fit.

I don't have a Domino, though I think it would be a great tool to own. I'm just too cheap. From what I've seen it leaves a clean mortise and the floating tenons are a good fit. At your stage of woodworking I would probably recommend the Domino and forget about traditional M&T's, unless you decide to build traditional, period correct, furniture.

 

[drw]

I do not have a mortiser, I thought about buying one, but I opted for the domino. I think I made the best choice for me, I use the domino all of the time...it is a great tool.

 

[zdorsch]

I own a bench top mortiser but would prefer a domino since it offers greater utility. The bench top mortiser limits how large of a piece I can mortise (the end of a long stretcher or stile) and angles without creative jigs (picture frame corners). The Domino allows you to take the tool to the piece.

Price is significantly different and a bench top mortiser generally wins out. However convenience may outweigh cost.

 

[DavidK]

Another rather important feature for the domino is that it packs into the included sustainer which can be stored and transported easily.

 

[Billm0066]

I also have a domino and love it. Bought it used for $900. They pop up for sale on festool owners group. Buy used and you won’t lose any money if you decide to sell it. That’s how I bought 15+ festool items.

 

[JimD]

I have a hollow chisel mortiser I will probably sell at some point, a Jet, and a Domino XL. If you get the smaller domino, you are limited to mortises about an inch deep and 8 or 10 mm (can't remember which) wide. The XL will cut mortises about 2 3/4 deep by as much as 14mm wide. With an adapter, I also use the little bits for the smaller domino. I like to build big as well as little things and I thus think the smaller domino is just too small for me. I am happy with the bigger one but it, of course, costs more. You can save a bit using CMT cutters (the XL comes only with a 12mm). So I bought CMT 14mm, 10mm, 8mm, 6mm, and 5mm. I could get a 4mm but have seen no need so far. They work fine. The 5 and 6 require the Senica adapter.

A benchtop mortiser like my Jet produces fine mortises and can go about as deep as the XL domino. But the sides of the mortise are rougher which is not terribly important. It cannot reasonably be used to cut mortises in long pieces like the domino does easily. It also takes up more space and takes longer to set up. It is also fussier in use. If I do not lube the drill bit a little it gets hot and if I lube it too much it gets on the project. My domino lives on a shelf on my assembly/outfeed table with a drawer for the cutters and attachments underneith. To use it I just lift it up, hook up the power and Bosch 35mm hose, and if it has the right bit, set the depth and height to what I need and start cutting mortises.

I don't think the two are comparable in price unless you are looking at a really nice floor standing hollow chisel mortiser. If so, it would work better than my benchtop since it should have a functional clamp to hold the work piece. You need a lot of clamp to resist the force of extracting the bit on the first cut. But that would amplify the space requirement difference. My shop is little so that is important to me.

I have not purchased any of the loose tenons yet. I bought my XL used and the seller included a bunch of 12mm tenons he had left over. I've used up all but 3 of those but I've mostly used tenons I made. Sometimes it was because I wanted a wider tenon. The 12mm tenon is just less than an inch wide. If you want a 2 inch tenon you can use two but you really need some space between them. Or you can plunge three times and make your own 2 inch tenon. I made about 100 100mm by 12mm tenons yesterday in an hour or two. Out of scrap. The purchased ones are handy for sure but you can make tenons and still save time versus cutting mortises with a hollow chisel mortiser and cutting and trimming tenons. The time required to make them is mostly setup so it pays to crank a bunch out when you are making them.

You also do not need a Festool vacumn. My Rigid and Bosch 35mm hose work fine. I think the domino is definitely a nicer way to go but quite pricey. A plunge router will make every bit as nice a mortise but takes more setup time. I cranked out three dozen mortises yesterday in an hour or so (each 2 inches deep, about an inch wide, and 12mm thick). You'd need a better hollow chisel tool than I have to do it in twice the time.

 

[Jeff]

I enjoy the challenge of cutting and making mortise and tenons by hand, but I’m a perfectionist and I have a lot of slop in the joints.

How much slop? The tenon should be a mild "slip in" fit into the mortise without using a hammer. If you can pick up the 2 pieces vertically by the tenon section and it doesn't fall out of the mortise then it's good to go. There are also easy ways to fix a sloppy tenon so it's a tighter fit into a mortise.

How have you been making your M&T joints?

A table saw is a quick way to make tenons and a hand held router with a spiral upcut bit is good for mortises.

 

[tvrgeek]

I was looking into a mortising machine, but went back to drill press and chisels for the mortice, ts/bs, on tenons. Not having any issue getting just the right snugness and I am no expert. I just cut the tenon slightly large and pare to fit. Easier to pare a tenon than a mortice.

The only problem I had was I originally had a benchtop drill press and it was too flexible causing my holes to be tilted. Big old floor standing drill and no more problem. I might go for a used machine if I ran across one.

Instead of buying dominos, one could make their own lose tenons that fit their hollow chisels exactlly ahead of time. A bit if tiral and error on the table saw you could make a batch. Are they compressed like biscuits?

 

[cyclopentadiene]

I have both as well. Domino all the way unless you want through mortises

 

[Charles Lent]

Do you have a router? A simple template for the dimension of the mortise, and a guide bushing and a spiral bit of the desired size for the router will let you make matching mortises in both pieces. Then your table saw can make floating tenons to fit the mortises. The tenon stock does not need rounded ends. Just make them fit the straight part of the mortises, and leave the half round for the excess glue. The strength is in the quality of fit of the flat sides to the sides of the mortise.

If you have a planer, you can make tenon stock the exact thickness very easily. Then cut it to length and width using the table saw. Save the rest of the tenon stock for the next time.

Charley

 

[Grit12Gauge]

How much slop? The tenon should be a mild "slip in" fit into the mortise without using a hammer. If you can pick up the 2 pieces vertically by the tenon section and it doesn't fall out of the mortise then it's good to go. There are also easy ways to fix a sloppy tenon so it's a tighter fit into a mortise.

How have you been making your M&T joints?

A table saw is a quick way to make tenons and a hand held router with a spiral upcut bit is good for mortises.

I feel comfortable cutting tenons on the table saw with my dado stack. I’ve cut my mortises with a router and spiral up cut then used chisel to square edges. I think my problem is I’m cutting tenons before mortises

 

[Charles Lent]

Yes, it's best to fit the tenons to the mortise, no matter how you decide to do it. I've tried all of the methods, and prefer using the router to cut the mortises, because it leaves a clean and accurate cut, and no chiseling is required. I now own a Leigh FMT Pro, and it works great for cutting both the mortises and the tenons, since it has an adjustment that lets you adjust the tenon to the mortise for very precise fits, but floating tenons work well too, and are much less expensive for the tooling needed.

Charley

 

[Jeff]

I feel comfortable cutting tenons on the table saw with my dado stack. I’ve cut my mortises with a router and spiral up cut then used chisel to square edges. I think my problem is I’m cutting tenons before mortises

How well do they fit together? How "sloppy" are yours?

Two points that work for me:

1) Cut the mortises first to your desired dimensions with your router setup. I have a homemade mortising jig that's easy to use and it works similar to the FMT Pro that Charley mentioned above.

2) Leave the mortise ends rounded as they are. There's no real need to square them up. Cut the tenons on your table saw and then ROUND the corners to fit the mortise using a rasp and an 80 grit sandpaper strip.

 

[Pop Golden]

My solution is my benchtop mortiser & a tenion attachment for the table saw. They work & play together as a team. The problem with Festool is that you're not buying a tool, you are buying into a system most of which is proprietary. Also their very proud of their stuff (price). I have turned my benchtop mortiser into a stand alone tool with the addition of a cabinet & mobile base. I weighted it down to keep it put when working. Didn't need it tipping over in my lap. My tenion attachment for the saw has a very fine adjustment to get a very precise tenion. It takes a little time to set this system up, but it works for me.

Pop

 

[sandfarm]

I have a hollow chisel mortiser I will probably sell at some point, a Jet, and a Domino XL. If you get the smaller domino, you are limited to mortises about an inch deep and 8 or 10 mm (can't remember which) wide. The XL will cut mortises about 2 3/4 deep by as much as 14mm wide. With an adapter, I also use the little bits for the smaller domino. I like to build big as well as little things and I thus think the smaller domino is just too small for me. I am happy with the bigger one but it, of course, costs more. You can save a bit using CMT cutters (the XL comes only with a 12mm). So I bought CMT 14mm, 10mm, 8mm, 6mm, and 5mm. I could get a 4mm but have seen no need so far. They work fine. The 5 and 6 require the Senica adapter.

A benchtop mortiser like my Jet produces fine mortises and can go about as deep as the XL domino. But the sides of the mortise are rougher which is not terribly important. It cannot reasonably be used to cut mortises in long pieces like the domino does easily. It also takes up more space and takes longer to set up. It is also fussier in use. If I do not lube the drill bit a little it gets hot and if I lube it too much it gets on the project. My domino lives on a shelf on my assembly/outfeed table with a drawer for the cutters and attachments underneith. To use it I just lift it up, hook up the power and Bosch 35mm hose, and if it has the right bit, set the depth and height to what I need and start cutting mortises.

I don't think the two are comparable in price unless you are looking at a really nice floor standing hollow chisel mortiser. If so, it would work better than my benchtop since it should have a functional clamp to hold the work piece. You need a lot of clamp to resist the force of extracting the bit on the first cut. But that would amplify the space requirement difference. My shop is little so that is important to me.

I have not purchased any of the loose tenons yet. I bought my XL used and the seller included a bunch of 12mm tenons he had left over. I've used up all but 3 of those but I've mostly used tenons I made. Sometimes it was because I wanted a wider tenon. The 12mm tenon is just less than an inch wide. If you want a 2 inch tenon you can use two but you really need some space between them. Or you can plunge three times and make your own 2 inch tenon. I made about 100 100mm by 12mm tenons yesterday in an hour or two. Out of scrap. The purchased ones are handy for sure but you can make tenons and still save time versus cutting mortises with a hollow chisel mortiser and cutting and trimming tenons. The time required to make them is mostly setup so it pays to crank a bunch out when you are making them.

You also do not need a Festool vacumn. My Rigid and Bosch 35mm hose work fine. I think the domino is definitely a nicer way to go but quite pricey. A plunge router will make every bit as nice a mortise but takes more setup time. I cranked out three dozen mortises yesterday in an hour or so (each 2 inches deep, about an inch wide, and 12mm thick). You'd need a better hollow chisel tool than I have to do it in twice the time.

It sounds like your drill bit is too high in the chisel.
Most drill mortise bits are a little bigger at the point end and should be slightly lower and not touching the chisel.

 

[redknife]

I have both and use them differently. For solid furniture joinery, I prefer the mortiser and table saw tenoning jig. I enjoy the build and solid feel of a mortise and tenon joint. I use the Domino more frequently. If I had to give one up, I’d give up the mortiser and make mortises any number of other ways. there is a learning curve to the Domino. For instance, when I built my first cabinet case, there were some slight alignment issues and I had a heck of a time getting the glue-up completed. I prefer other joinery now for cabinet casing sometimes supplemented with Dominoes. Another consideration with the domino is calculating the total cost of the Domino system to include the tenons +/- vacuum. There are so many kinds of joints and joinery that it’s best not to focus on one or another. There are a lot of joinery techniques that you can do with basic power and hand tools, so don’t feel like you need the Domino system to make woodworking pieces. All that said, I don’t think you’d regret purchasing the Domino.