hinge into end grain

[BKHam]

here is the project:
-jewelry box (2 of them actually)
-teak solid wood sides
-curved (inset for lack of a better term) veneered lid
-Lots of fun woodworking that i'll post on later including tiny little housed dovetails for the dividers

to achieve the inset look, i need to add a piece of wood on the inside of the top chamber for the hinges i've chosen to go into.
-in the picture below, i grabbed a piece of poplar to illustrate my point.
-this piece would get glued to the case side with the grain going up and down
-i am wondering about the longterm staying power of those hinge screws into the end grain
-Its such a small piece, i could glue in a piece that is cross grain to the sides, thus giving me side grain for the screws

end grain no issue, i'm over thinking it?
do the cross grain for better grabbing power?

 

[Mike Davis]

I believe the end grain will be weaker for holding screws.

 

[jlimey]

I agree with Mike. If you keep the screw block < 3" I think that you would be fine cross grain.

 

[Gofor]

I would turn the block to go cross grain.

 

[Oka]

If you want to attach into the end grain, you would need screws with a more aggressive thread, something similar to the spax but the thread is deeper cut. Screws you might see in a particle board chest of drawer kit from Ikea. Also, after predrilling add some glue in the hole before adding the screw to better stabilze........ or turn the wood block if possible change the orientation to cross grain. If the appearance of the grain on that block bothers you then prep it to cover all the grain and paint out.

 

[tvrgeek]

Cross grain is always stronger. Though you can play some ticks to reinforce end grain like drill and put in the screw, take it out and soak the hole wit a couple drops of super glue. After it is cured, put the screw back in.

 

[Matt Furjanic]

Cross grain is always stronger. Though you can play some ticks to reinforce end grain like drill and put in the screw, take it out and soak the hole wit a couple drops of super glue. After it is cured, put the screw back in.

This is a good solution, I have not heard of before. Good tip.
I have had this same problem and I drilled a small hole (about 3/8” is about right) where the screws will go, and glue in a cross grain plug. This will hold the screws securely.

 

[marinosr]

IMO both concerns are not really concerns. The amount of force a jewelry box lid sees is not going to pull properly-installed screws out of end grain. Put a dab of CA glue if you're really worried. The little piece also short enough to not separate due to shrink-swell (although make sure you prep the oily teak well for gluing at cross-grain.) So I say just pick whichever way looks the best.

 

[sandfarm]

Consider drilling a larger hole and gluing in a dowel for the screw to hold to. Using a different very fine grain wood for the dowel.
I works.
You know sometimes a screw hole strips out say on a door hinge. On the job, we would take a golf tee, drive it in the hole and cut off. Worked like a charm.

 

[BKHam]

IMO both concerns are not really concerns. The amount of force a jewelry box lid sees is not going to pull properly-installed screws out of end grain. Put a dab of CA glue if you're really worried. The little piece also short enough to not separate due to shrink-swell (although make sure you prep the oily teak well for gluing at cross-grain.) So I say just pick whichever way looks the best.

no joke on the oily wood. so ready to get back to titebond I. i've used polyurethane glue, hide glue, and epoxy so far. note, i did read up and people had sucess with titebond III. i did a couple panel glue ups in the early the project with TB III. they fell apart!

 

[BKHam]

Cross grain is always stronger. Though you can play some ticks to reinforce end grain like drill and put in the screw, take it out and soak the hole wit a couple drops of super glue. After it is cured, put the screw back in.

the leading idea at this point i think, is doing the cross grain with hide glue with maybe a nice brass screw to ensure it doesn't work loose over the years. the screw may get covered with leather / fabric / flocking anyway.

my daughter is going to be the owner of one of these, she may be a little rough on the lid

 

[marinosr]

no joke on the oily wood. so ready to get back to titebond I. i've used polyurethane glue, hide glue, and epoxy so far. note, i did read up and people had sucess with titebond III. i did a couple panel glue ups in the early the project with TB III. they fell apart!

I've not worked with teak, but when working with padauk, I've had good success using acetone to prep the surfaces... Really soak the glue joint with acetone on a paper towel to get as much oil dissolved, wipe thoroughly, let dry, then wipe the area again with a light touch the 2nd time, then glue as soon as the acetone flashes off. You want to get the glue into the wood pores before the oil has a chance to migrate back to the surface.

 

[kserdar]

I don't see why you need to -
"add a piece of wood on the inside of the top chamber for the hinges i've chosen to go into. "
Do your hinges only open 90 degrees? I would almost bet there are similar 180 degree hinges.
Then you just fasten the hinge to the back and lid.

 

[striker]

just a quick thought.....file the stops off the hinge and allow it to open 180° and mount the hinge inside the back panel and lid.

 

[JohnnyR]

just a quick thought.....file the stops off the hinge and allow it to open 180° and mount the hinge inside the back panel and lid.

If you take this route, pre screw the hinge to the back before assembly, you'll otherwise never get a good 90* screw set.
A totally different take - instead of these hinges would be to just drill in from the side and insert a brass rod with or without a plug.

 

[Joe Scharle]

Just MTCW:
Dowels are end grain, whereas plugs are long grain, but must be pre-drilled to prevent the screw from splitting the wood.

 

[sandfarm]

Dowels are end grain, but, glued in dowels are less likely to split.

 

[BKHam]

just a quick thought.....file the stops off the hinge and allow it to open 180° and mount the hinge inside the back panel and lid.

quite an idea. the case is already glued up and my back panel would have needed to be more substantial (its 1/4 inch edge banded and veneered plywood. but totally out of the box. i like it.

 

[BKHam]

If you take this route, pre screw the hinge to the back before assembly, you'll otherwise never get a good 90* screw set.
A totally different take - instead of these hinges would be to just drill in from the side and insert a brass rod with or without a plug.

another totally out of the box awesome idea but the case is glued up already. i would have needed to construct my lid a little differently to allow for clearance. I also considered a wood hinge but this build was complicated enough.

 

[BKHam]

One general idea that may have me scrambling, end grain or cross grain, is that i have 90 degree hinges. with the lid being curved. i wonder if it will stay up. i glued in my screw blocks with hide glue so it could be undone .