High efficiency wood burning fireplace

[Willemjm]

Trying to get this project going, but the picking of vendors and installers are slim. Might have to figure this out with my builder and do it ourselves.

Interesting, lots of fireplace installers around Pinehurst/Aberdeen NC, but when you say high efficiency 75,000 BTU wood burning with a blower and fresh air intake, all you get back is a blank stare...........

Anyone know anyone?

Appreciated.

 

[chris_goris]

Trying to get this project going, but the picking of vendors and installers are slim. Might have to figure this out with my builder and do it ourselves.

Interesting, lots of fireplace installers around Pinehurst/Aberdeen NC, but when you say high efficiency 75,000 BTU wood burning with a blower and fresh air intake, all you get back is a blank stare...........

Anyone know anyone?

Appreciated.

I had one in NY, fireplace Xtrordinair 44 Elite... It may be a little too "pretty" for a shop but I think its 80k BTU with fresh air intake and thermostatic blower. I heated a 2800 SF drafty old farmhouse in NYS with one for several winters. easy install too.

 

[Jeff]

Interesting, lots of fireplace installers around Pinehurst/Aberdeen NC, but when you say high efficiency 75,000 BTU wood burning with a blower and fresh air intake, all you get back is a blank stare...........

Not surprising. Why not install a wood stove in a regular masonry chimney? Many of them have an optional screen for use with the doors open if you want that "fireplace" look.

Here's a Jotul that inserts in a traditional masonry fireplace.

https://jotul.com/us/products/wood-fireplace-inserts/jotul-c-550-rockland-cf

We have this free standing wood stove that vents directly into a masonry chimney. 8,500 Btu maximum.

https://jotul.com/us/products/wood-stoves/jotul-f-600#technical-area

 

[Willemjm]

Nope, this one is for the house, needs to be pretty. I think the install is straight forward, just have not done it before and don't want to burn down the house.

 

[Willemjm]

Not surprising. Why not install a wood stove in a regular masonry chimney? Many of them have an optional screen for use with the doors open if you want that "fireplace" look.

Here's a Jotul that inserts in a traditional masonry fireplace.

https://jotul.com/us/products/wood-fireplace-inserts/jotul-c-550-rockland-cf

We have this free standing wood stove that vents directly into a masonry chimney. 8,500 Btu maximum.

https://jotul.com/us/products/wood-stoves/jotul-f-600#technical-area

Masonry chimney will be nice, but looking at more than double the costs.

 

[gritz]

Why so large a stove?

 

[Jeff]

Why so large a stove?

Usually the Btu output is stated as the maximum output when it's operating wide open. In reality, the actual output is less once the fire is burning and the air flow is reduced.

 

[gritz]

Usually the Btu output is stated as the maximum output when it's operating wide open. In reality, the actual output is less once the fire is burning and the air flow is reduced.

I have a 100,000 BTU in the basement, and have to choke it way down to be able to stay in the room. At the lowest draft setting, it will burn eight hours when fully loaded, and easily keep our 2,500 sf cabin at 72 degrees with 6" of snow outside.
Most "high efficiency" stove manufacturers went out of business during the catalytic era. The ones that survived apparently decided that "EPA rated" stoves were the safest bet.
I had a whole house fully ducted steel fireplace unit in a 4,500 sf house about 35 years ago. It worked like a dream, but of course is no longer made.

 

[golfdad]

I have a insert in mine from these folks but it is in a Masonry fireplace which I am partial to anyway :icon_thum


www.heatilator.com/

 

[JimD]

A quick google search turned up several manufacturers of high efficiency gas fireplaces (not inserts) costing from 1,000 to 5,000 dollars. Looks like they are still available but you might have to help a local installer understand what you want and send them to the supplier. I looked at an insert from a company, quadra-fire, that also offers fireplaces and it was quoted at 77% efficient. Looks like you can download the installation instructions. I don't know if this is a good company or not, it was the first one in the Google list (so they probably paid Google something).

I want a high efficiency insert for my existing fireplace but it hasn't gotten to the top of my list yet. I am thinking gas so it will be easier to use when the power goes out for backup heat and require less flue cleaning. But it would be simpler to go with wood. I don't have gas so I would have to use propane which raises an issue with where to place the tank, etc.. But I'd like to have gas hot water too... Have to make some decisions.

But I don't think you should have a lot of trouble finding a fireplace like you describe, getting it to your location could be an issue or something but it looks like they are available.

 

[Willemjm]

A quick google search turned up several manufacturers of high efficiency gas fireplaces (not inserts) costing from 1,000 to 5,000 dollars. Looks like they are still available but you might have to help a local installer understand what you want and send them to the supplier. I looked at an insert from a company, quadra-fire, that also offers fireplaces and it was quoted at 77% efficient. Looks like you can download the installation instructions. I don't know if this is a good company or not, it was the first one in the Google list (so they probably paid Google something).

I want a high efficiency insert for my existing fireplace but it hasn't gotten to the top of my list yet. I am thinking gas so it will be easier to use when the power goes out for backup heat and require less flue cleaning. But it would be simpler to go with wood. I don't have gas so I would have to use propane which raises an issue with where to place the tank, etc.. But I'd like to have gas hot water too... Have to make some decisions.

But I don't think you should have a lot of trouble finding a fireplace like you describe, getting it to your location could be an issue or something but it looks like they are available.

I think I have it all figured out. Over here there is just one installer and he only uses one vendor. His price is around $2,000 more than what I can get materials only, but a much bigger nicer unit compared to his. I have researched the subject thoroughly and the install is pretty simple. I now just have to get my builder on board, as I will need the muscle to put in the pipe and flash the roof properly.

The unit I am looking at is 75,000 BTU, or 20kW and I will probably use it very seldom, it is more the ambiance that attracts me. Then there is always the little problem where I seem to accumulate tons of off-cuts from the shop in no time. So that is a handy device for burning them for a nice cozy evening with a glass of red wine.

PS. I have left voice mails for every other installer within 100 miles, no calls returned, so the local guy here has a monopoly.

 

[ehpoole]

I think I have it all figured out. Over here there is just one installer and he only uses one vendor. His price is around $2,000 more than what I can get materials only, but a much bigger nicer unit compared to his. I have researched the subject thoroughly and the install is pretty simple. I now just have to get my builder on board, as I will need the muscle to put in the pipe and flash the roof properly.

The unit I am looking at is 75,000 BTU, or 20kW and I will probably use it very seldom, it is more the ambiance that attracts me. Then there is always the little problem where I seem to accumulate tons of off-cuts from the shop in no time. So that is a handy device for burning them for a nice cozy evening with a glass of red wine.

PS. I have left voice mails for every other installer within 100 miles, no calls returned, so the local guy here has a monopoly.

Out of curiosity, how large is the workshop space and what sort of insulation does it have? I ask as 75,000 BTUs seems wildly excessive unless it is a very large and uninsulate space or you otherwise have a very high level of air exchange between indoors and out (such as exhausting your DC outdoors for extended periods). For comparison purposes, my shop space is a moderately sized 2-car garage of around 525-550 square feet with 10-1/2 foot ceilings and moderately insulated and includes a double-wide garage door and it is heated with just 12,000 BTUs to around 68F in the winter. Now, on the very coldest/windiest winter days I would need up to a 12 hour head start to heat the garage from near freezing to that 68F, but that is only for the coldest days with a blowing wind (which can get past the garage door weather stripping) — and is not an issue at all if the space were being maintained at that temperature rather than used only intermittently as needed (as on demand use means I also have to overcome the cold concrete whereas with continual heating the concrete works for you since it becomes a large heat reservoir). A typical electric space heater produces around 4500 BTUs of heat and that is what I use if I wish to speed things up (or I can fire up my 18,000 BTU portable propane space heater if I’m in a much greater hurry and add that to the 12,000 of my window unit...in which case it does not take long at all) — in fact, I would estimate that around 18,000 BTUs of both heating and cooling would be the optimal amount for my shop size were I to redo things based upon what I know now (at the time 12,000 BTU units were the largest I could readily and inexpensivelt obtain that fit the existing windows and that is what ultimately determined my capacity at the time).

I ask only because you may not need anywhere close to 75,000 BTUs to adequately heat your shop and by reducing that figure to something more appropriate for your space you may both open up greater options and end up with a more comfortable shop to boot since excessive heat can be just as uncomfortable as excessive cold. In fact, you may even consider a solution adequate to maintain a comfortable shop and add a modest electric strip or heat pump to temporarily boost the heat output when you need to heat the space in a hurry or if you have an unusually cold or windy night or two. Also, if efficiency is a real driving concern you may also wish to investigate what the actual efficiency of the wood burning unit is when scaled down to just a small fraction of its nominal rated output as many systems (from heating to electronics, etc.) tend to incur reductions in their efficiency when operated well above or below their optimal rated output level and I would imagine that the same is likely to apply to woodburning stoves/heaters as well — odds are the manufacturer will likely have some data to help compare efficiency relative to a range of outputs if asked.

But whatever way you should go, I wish you all the best on your quest!

 

[Willemjm]

Out of curiosity, how large is the workshop space and what sort of insulation does it have? I ask as 75,000 BTUs seems wildly excessive unless it is a very large and uninsulate space or you otherwise have a very high level of air exchange between indoors and out (such as exhausting your DC outdoors for extended periods). For comparison purposes, my shop space is a moderately sized 2-car garage of around 525-550 square feet with 10-1/2 foot ceilings and moderately insulated and includes a double-wide garage door and it is heated with just 12,000 BTUs to around 68F in the winter. Now, on the very coldest/windiest winter days I would need up to a 12 hour head start to heat the garage from near freezing to that 68F, but that is only for the coldest days with a blowing wind (which can get past the garage door weather stripping) — and is not an issue at all if the space were being maintained at that temperature rather than used only intermittently as needed (as on demand use means I also have to overcome the cold concrete whereas with continual heating the concrete works for you since it becomes a large heat reservoir). A typical electric space heater produces around 4500 BTUs of heat and that is what I use if I wish to speed things up (or I can fire up my 18,000 BTU portable propane space heater if I’m in a much greater hurry and add that to the 12,000 of my window unit...in which case it does not take long at all) — in fact, I would estimate that around 18,000 BTUs of both heating and cooling would be the optimal amount for my shop size were I to redo things based upon what I know now (at the time 12,000 BTU units were the largest I could readily and inexpensivelt obtain that fit the existing windows and that is what ultimately determined my capacity at the time).

I ask only because you may not need anywhere close to 75,000 BTUs to adequately heat your shop and by reducing that figure to something more appropriate for your space you may both open up greater options and end up with a more comfortable shop to boot since excessive heat can be just as uncomfortable as excessive cold. In fact, you may even consider a solution adequate to maintain a comfortable shop and add a modest electric strip or heat pump to temporarily boost the heat output when you need to heat the space in a hurry or if you have an unusually cold or windy night or two. Also, if efficiency is a real driving concern you may also wish to investigate what the actual efficiency of the wood burning unit is when scaled down to just a small fraction of its nominal rated output as many systems (from heating to electronics, etc.) tend to incur reductions in their efficiency when operated well above or below their optimal rated output level and I would imagine that the same is likely to apply to woodburning stoves/heaters as well — odds are the manufacturer will likely have some data to help compare efficiency relative to a range of outputs if asked.

But whatever way you should go, I wish you all the best on your quest!

Thanks those were good questions and I appreciate the input. The fireplace is actually for the house I am building. I am building a new house same time as the shop.

 

[JimD]

I think you are right to conclude you do not need a specialist. Many years ago we built a house in Omaha Nebraska. It was in a large development controlled by one builder. We built it because he would buy down the mortgage, this was when rates peaked at about 16%. We left central AC out and a fireplace out of the builders scope to save money. We moved in in the winter and I had the AC in before it got hot the next summer. But this note is about fireplaces.

I had the builder but in a foundation for the fireplace when he did the foundation for the house, that was cheap. Then I bought a heatilator wood burning fireplace with outside air inlet and a blower. My father in law helped me move it onto the foundation and I built a wooden chimney - which was common in this development. I put the flue pipe on as I built up. I got a better job and we moved just as I finished, we only burned scraps in the fireplace, but it worked fine. I also put a brick veneer on inside for appearance and put up a mantle.

Lots of things on a house are a bit intimidating the first time you do it but I've found they aren't really that hard. It's also not terribly difficult to find a sub to do specialized work. A fireplace installer is not a recognized profession around here. Seems like a mason and an electrician are the only subs you could possibly need.

 

[Jeff]

I think I have it all figured out. Over here there is just one installer and he only uses one vendor. His price is around $2,000 more than what I can get materials only, but a much bigger nicer unit compared to his. I have researched the subject thoroughly and the install is pretty simple.

So what model does the vendor offer? Just curious.

The unit I am looking at is 75,000 BTU, or 20kW

kW for a wood burning fireplace?

 

[LastChanceWoodshop]

I have had quadra-fire units and Jotul units in 2 different homes. Both have performed well and have a reburning system rather than a catalytic converter (wear item).

Take a look at the Quad 7100 as an option. My 5100 performed flawlessly, though it is a free standing unit rather than an insert/

http://www.quadrafire.com/Products/7100-Wood-Fireplace.aspx