Henredon Equipment Auction in High Point

[Tarhead]

http://www.irsauctions.com/index_lots.asp?pg=details&tot=&id=9172

Sadly another icon is closing up some (all?) of its operation...lots of big ole stuff up for auction here in the various lots. The 42" Tannewitz Bandsaw would require most of us to build a new shop (or house!). 24" Porter jointer, 20" Meber Bandsaw, couple of Unisaws and a huge osclillating huge spindle sander.

 

[Littlejon]

I work in HP and have been involved with the Furniture Market in the past. It is indeed sad to see another company going out of business.

Lots of stuff I would love to have, if I had an aircraft hangar for a shop! 8-O

I also noticed most (if not ALL) of the stuff listed was 3 phase. I don't know many jackleg woodworkers with shops with 3 phase wiring. Pretty expensive to upgrade if you want to invest in some of those power tools!

 

[woodguy1975]

A few of us have 3 phase just for this purpose. Lots of good old table saws, bandsaws, 24" jointer, lathes including an Oliver, Oliver spindle sander.... Lots of old great tools. Sad to see the company go out of business. I hope we can keep this equipment in NC.

The 24" jointer is awsome, but I'm not bidding on it. I'll finish restoring my Moak 16".

John

 

[John Reeves]

I am thinking about the Porter 350 6" jointer. It is 3 phase which means that I would have to put a new motor on it. Does anyone have any insights on this?

John

 

[John Reeves]

Also thinking about the 20" band saws, Delta amd Meber. Still 3 phase whish means a new or different motor.

Any insights?

John

 

[Matt]

I just bought one of these:
http://www.actech.com/scm_data.htm

It takes 110V/1ph input and converts to 230V/3ph output (variable speed). Cost me a few hundred (I needed it for work), but now I have 3 phase!! Will power up to a 1.5hp motor.

 

[woodguy1975]

Don't bother with any inverters for 3 phase. Get a rotary phase converter. It isn't worth buying any of the tools on IRS if you have to change out the motor. Most of the time. I got lucky and got my SR600 BS for $800. I could have changed the motor and it would have still be a good deal, but that isn't the norm. You'll pay enough it won't be a good deal to have to spend $$ on the motor too. I have a 10 HP phase converter and it cost me like $700.

If you get a phase converter get at least 10HP so you can handle a 7.5HP 3 phase motor.

Good Luck,

John

 

[Bernhard]

Don't bother with any inverters for 3 phase. Get a rotary phase converter. ....John

I'll second that. Most inverters will generate a pretty rough square wave and most (at least the less expensive ones) are designed for smaller loads. A rotary phase converter will actually generate "true" 3-phase. Also, if you outgrow one, they can be ganged together.

One other advantage: 3-phase motors are much cheaper.

...and -of course- you can bid on IRS auctions on 3-phase equipment.

I got a 10hp Kay phasemaster with a 220v X10 switch. So I can switch the unit from each machine with a keyless remote. All my 3 phase equipment (saw, shaper, planer, mortiser, hingedrill, dust collection, etc) works off one converter.

Now I need to go bid on that edge sander....

Bernhard

 

[Matt]

I agree that a phase converter would be better except for one little detail - variable speed (that is why I bought the thing - to run a little three phase motor at various speeds). Being able to run 1.5hp stuff I might bid on at IRS would be just a bonus.

However, when the cheap Chinese motor dies on my lathe, I plan to replace it with a constant torque inverter duty motor and hook it up to my inverter. I can then get lower than the 360rpm of my current belt system and have torque down low.

One final note - you can also usually tune the carrier frequency on an inverter if your motor is running rough. Running a higher carrier frequency "smooths" the "square" wave.

 

[woodguy1975]

I agree that a phase converter would be better except for one little detail - variable speed (that is why I bought the thing - to run a little three phase motor at various speeds). Being able to run 1.5hp stuff I might bid on at IRS would be just a bonus.

However, when the cheap Chinese motor dies on my lathe, I plan to replace it with a constant torque inverter duty motor and hook it up to my inverter. I can then get lower than the 360rpm of my current belt system and have torque down low.

One final note - you can also usually tune the carrier frequency on an inverter if your motor is running rough. Running a higher carrier frequency "smooths" the "square" wave.

You have to be careful running an inverter on a non inverter rated duty motor.

 

[John Reeves]

I just finished putting a 220 circuit in my shop. Can't do everything at once.

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

I agree that a phase converter would be better except for one little detail - variable speed (that is why I bought the thing - to run a little three phase motor at various speeds). Being able to run 1.5hp stuff I might bid on at IRS would be just a bonus.

However, when the cheap Chinese motor dies on my lathe, I plan to replace it with a constant torque inverter duty motor and hook it up to my inverter. I can then get lower than the 360rpm of my current belt system and have torque down low.

That's what I use it for. I upped the hp (1.5) and added a VFD to my lathe for smoother and quieter variable speed (and removed the Reeves assembly). I have another VFD, and will be doing the same to my drill press- no more belt/pulley changes! I knew a guy who had one on his bandsaw.

 

[D L Ames]

Alan, will you have to change the motor on your drill press in order to run the inverter?

D L

 

[Matt]

Speaking as someone who has wired just about anything that would turn to an inverter (and fried some stuff here and there) -

John is right, the best thing is to use an inverter duty motor on an inverter. Inverter duty motors have better insulation in the windings and will last a lot longer.

However, you can run a standard duty motor on an inverter. The issue comes in that it will overheat much quicker. Inverters typically work by converting AC into DC and then back to AC. They "sample" the +/- DC to simulate an AC wave. So, it is inherently not as smooth as "real" AC. This puts added strain on the motor and shortens life.

The other issue is torque. AC motors typically (unless it is a constant torque motor) have minimal torque at low rpm. You can stop a 5hp motor with your hand (don't ask) if you run it slow enough. So, you want to be sure you will have enough torque at whatever speed you will be running.

Finally, it used to be that if you wanted a variable speed motor it had to be DC or 3ph AC. So, you may need to change out the motor if you want to run an inverter. Depends on what's there. I would check with a motor shop - every town has a couple of 'em.

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

Alan, will you have to change the motor on your drill press in order to run the inverter?

D L

Yeah, I got a larger hp 3 phase Leeson with the same kind of mount for the drill press. Also, I will remove the center pulley and just have one link belt between the motor and quill pulley.

The new 1.5 hp Baldor motor on the lathe is 3 phase also. You don't get full rated hp out of the motor with an inverter running on 1 phase power, but since I started with 3/4 hp on the lathe I'm still doing better. Most of the solid state VFD's will list power factors for 1 and 3 phase power input so you can see what you'll get.

 

[D L Ames]

Thanks for the feedback Alan and Matt. The amount of knowledge we have on this site never ceases to amaze me.

D L

 

[woodguy1975]

You can get Inverter Rated motors pretty cheap at this low of HP. An inverter rated 3 phase motor is probably about the same cost as a single phase equivalent. Also inverter rated motors typically have a much flatter torque curve on the low RPM end and have higher torque. Marathon blue max motors have awsome torque. One way to keep your torque up is to us a pulley to keep your motor RPM high enough to get torque. You can overspeed a motor on the high end without doing any damage for the amount of run time we'd give the motor.

I do not advise running and inverter an just any 3 phase motor. I design and rebuilt manufacturing lines all the time. Of course those motors are usually 40-60 HP, but the same rules apply.

Here is a quote from Marathon's website on their bluemax motors.

"Constant torque operation from 0 to base speed (RPM) on Vector Drive, including TEFC (On Volts/Hertz drives, TEFC motors are limited to 20:1 Constant torque)"

Their black max motors have constant torque down to 0 rpm, but have lower torque.

John