Help Rebuilding martin(?) house and feeder

Dee2

Board of Directors, Vice President
Gene
Staff member
Corporate Member
My neighbor brought a bird house and a feeder to me today. Both are made from pine and octagon shaped. The pine boards are rotting. The builder gave him replacements but he asked if I would repair these. One has a raised seam copper roof. I digress.

The octagons are made with bird's mouth joinery. The octagon faces are about 4-1/2" wide, perpendicular to the base (straight, not tapered sides), and 10" tall.

All costs will be covered by the neighbor. However I don't have room for a Felder combo jointer/planer or shaper.

FWIW, I have a sickly 3hp router that I can mount to a table top (doesn't hold speed). I have a hot-rodded unisaw. I also have a nice 12" RAS that needs some exercise.

Here's my questions:
1) I'm thinking some more rot resistant wood should be used for the rebuild. Recommendations? I'll need to find ~14' of the material. He has some salt treated boards but I'm thinking that is not for the birds.
2) Do I route the bird's mouth joint or cut them on the table saw? If routing is your recommendation, which manufacturer, Infinity, MCS, Yochinko, or other? This will probably be a one time use project.
 

Martin Roper

Martin
Senior User
I don't have the luxury of multiple blades so I'd use a dado blade on the TS to do that. It has flat-cut teeth (FTG) so you can make a nice clean cut. Your typical cutting blade has alternating teeth (ATB) that leave a notched groove in the wood. Two 45* cuts per board should go quickly.

Edit: found this:

 
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Roy G

Roy
Senior User
Lee Valley has, or used to have, router bits to cut bird's-mouth joints for quite a few angles.

Roy G
 

Jeff

New User
Jeff
You don't need to use bird mouth joints to keep it together in an octagon. I'd recommend 1" thick eastern red cedar or cypress instead of pine. Cut 8 pieces (4.5" wide x 10-12" long) and bevel the edges of each piece at 22.5 degrees (360/8) = 45. 45/2 = 22.5 degrees.

Lay the pieces on tape and apply Titebond III exterior glue to each tapered edge and then fold the entire thing up to get an octagon. Add another layer of tape to keep it together until the glue dries.

The interior of the octagonal bird house (martens?) should have 8 compartments for 8 nesting pairs. A couple of pictures would be helpful.

P1010007.png
P1010006.png
 
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Dee2

Board of Directors, Vice President
Gene
Staff member
Corporate Member
Heard from Klingspor. Their name for them is multi-angle bits, OBTW.

Jeff,
Thanks. I was trying to replicate the original joints. And, thanks for help with the geometry.

FWIW, this house is divided for 4 pairs of nesting birds. The 'holes' have brass inserts so that the birds (don't remember which species does it) don't peck them bigger.

When I opened the house each section still had nests. I suspect the failure was induced by the owners failure to keep it cleaned during the off seasons. The feeder is a different story. Each side has a cathedral 'window'. The paint looked good on the surface but still there is major rot in the walls and not the floor.

Any ideas where in greater Greenville area to get cedar or cypress? I guess that is Regions 4/5 in the Where To Buy Lumber but I'm not seeing a region map of NC.
 
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Jeff

New User
Jeff
A couple of pictures of the octagonal birdhouse with 4 dividers would be helpful. Is there a provision for fresh air circulation in the bottom 4 sections of the box?

Are these reasonable portrayals of what you want to rebuild? I don't know of any sources near Greenville for cypress or eastern red cedar but you can get it at the Hardwood Store and they'll deliver it you for a fee.



Screen Shot 2020-04-18 at 4.00.39 PM.png
Screen Shot 2020-04-18 at 4.01.15 PM.png
 
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Dee2

Board of Directors, Vice President
Gene
Staff member
Corporate Member
Jeff,

No photos available. They are already disassembled.

Your rendering is great. For the dividers, think two pieces of plywood intersecting with slots.

As a reminder, here are the questions in the OP:
1) I'm thinking some more rot resistant wood should be used for the rebuild. Recommendations?
2) Do I route the bird's mouth joint or cut them on the table saw?

16' of 5/4 Cypress is around $90 from Capital lumber. 16' of WRC is less than half. Time to find some WRC.
 

Jeff

New User
Jeff
As a reminder, here are the questions in the OP:
1) I'm thinking some more rot resistant wood should be used for the rebuild. Recommendations?
2) Do I route the bird's mouth joint or cut them on the table saw?

I hadn't forgot about your original questions. I recommended cypress or eastern red cedar, but western red cedar (WRC) will work too.



2) You already have my recommendation-don't use bird's mouth joints, they're not necessary and are overkill.

16' of 5/4 Cypress is around $90 from Capital lumber. 16' of WRC is less than half. Time to find some WRC.
Capitol City Lumber sells cypress, ERC, and WRC 5/4 x 6" w by the linear foot. I'm not seeing much of a price difference at their website.

Capitol City Lumber16 foot length
Western red cedar5/4 x 6" w $4.39/linear foot $70
Cypress5/4 x 6" w $4.49/linear foot $72

Sorry, I'm not being cantankerous or am I?
 

Dee2

Board of Directors, Vice President
Gene
Staff member
Corporate Member
Your numbers look better than mine for the cypress. I'll have to go back to the website and see where my fat fingers erred.
No. I don't believe you are being cantankerous. I appreciate your help very much.
 

Jeff

New User
Jeff
Here are my number from Capitol City Lumber. There are 2 grades of WRC.

5/4x6 WR Cedar A&Better S1S2E - Capitol City Lumber $5.29/bf

$4.39/bf

5/4 x 6 Cypress, Select S1S2E - Capitol City Lumber $4.49/bf
 
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Dee2

Board of Directors, Vice President
Gene
Staff member
Corporate Member
I dug a little deeper on the site regarding WRC and learned a little more about effects of the acidic nature of the wood and have decided to pursue cypress. There's a place in Wilson/Rocky Mount that I've asked for a quote. If that, or other local potential sources don't work out, I'm off to Raleigh sometime. When's the next lunch, TIC (tongue-in-cheek)?
 

Jeff

New User
Jeff
about effects of the acidic nature of the wood

What is putting you off about the acidic nature of the WRC wood? The acid is called Plicatic acid and it's reasonably acidic and more so than acetic acid (vinegar). Stainless steel screws are recommended for installation of WRC.
 

Dee2

Board of Directors, Vice President
Gene
Staff member
Corporate Member
Copper trim pieces around the (bird) entry holes.
 

Dee2

Board of Directors, Vice President
Gene
Staff member
Corporate Member
Yes, just like those. I checked today. A better look apparently than I made during disassembly.

Got to remember. Look twice, type once.
 
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