Help - my finish won't dry - UPDATE

[bobby g]

I applied a coat of General Finishes Seal A Cell three days ago to a veneered panel of Pau Ferro and it's still tacky. My shop is warm and dry. I did not wipe it down with acetone on the finish side - just on the glue side. Maybe I need to remove it and start over. If so, how would I do that? Thanks.
Bob

 

[Phil S]

No idea. I would call the folks at General Finishes

 

[bobby g]

No idea. I would call the folks at General Finishes

I can't find a contact number for them. Just for dealers. Maybe I'll just call and see if I can be transferred to the appropriate person.

 

[SteveHall]

Sounds like a chemistry problem. The humidity is as low as we'll see here in NC right now... my outside hygrometer says 29%RH. (Not that evaporation is a component of many finishes these days.)

 

[pcooper]

Not sure if this fits your issue, but sanding sealer is usually required before other finishes will dry on exotic woods. This finish you describe sounds like a sealer by name, but is it really? I did polyurethane on some Jatoba and it wouldn't dry either, just the same result as your issue, tried the sanding sealer bit and it worked just fine. I used Minwax water based sanding sealer found at Lowes.

 

[Oka]

Yes I have had that happen too, some woods have a chemistry you need to seal in order for finishes not to react with the wood.

 

[Matt Furjanic]

Pau Ferro is in the rosewood family. Most rosewoods are very oily, and an oil finish usually won’t dry properly when applied to a raw oily wood. It should probably be sealed with shellac, or wiped down with acetone first.
I would recommend, you strip the tacky finish and start over.

 

[bobby g]

I can't find a contact number for them. Just for dealers. Maybe I'll just call and see if I can be transferred to the appropriate person.

I need to be registered and have an account number to be able to speak to a person. This stinks! Not sure that I'll continue to use their products. Seems to me that end-user product support should be in place.

 

[bobby g]

Pau Ferro is in the rosewood family. Most rosewoods are very oily, and an oil finish usually won’t dry properly when applied to a raw oily wood. It should probably be sealed with shellac, or wiped down with acetone first.
I would recommend, you strip the tacky finish and start over.

Any suggestions on what to use, etc.? Thanks.

 

[bobby g]

Not sure if this fits your issue, but sanding sealer is usually required before other finishes will dry on exotic woods. This finish you describe sounds like a sealer by name, but is it really? I did polyurethane on some Jatoba and it wouldn't dry either, just the same result as your issue, tried the sanding sealer bit and it worked just fine. I used Minwax water based sanding sealer found at Lowes.

Thanks. No, I don't think it is really a sealer given that it contains some oils.

 

[Matt Furjanic]

Thanks. No, I don't think it is really a sealer given that it contains some oils.

Shellac is a great sealer.

 

[pcooper]

I've heard the shellac answer several times, I've not tried it yet but figure it won't be long before I have a project that needs it. I'd like to see how it works vs some of the other things I've used.

 

[Willemjm]

I applied a coat of General Finishes Seal A Cell three days ago to a veneered panel of Pau Ferro and it's still tacky. My shop is warm and dry. I did not wipe it down with acetone on the finish side - just on the glue side. Maybe I need to remove it and start over. If so, how would I do that? Thanks.
Bob

LOL, I sprayed a a clear coat of Sherwin Williams T77 just before reading this. It took less than 15 minutes to dry. Scuff sanded it lightly after 20 minutes to knock down the fibers using a fine sanding block. It is ready for the second coat.

Why did you choose this product?

 

[Phil S]

Any suggestions on what to use, etc.? Thanks.

I would try lacquer thinner or acetone to get the GF product off. Brush on and then scrape off. Gloves and eye protection, please

 

[bobby g]

LOL, I sprayed a a clear coat of Sherwin Williams T77 just before reading this. It took less than 15 minutes to dry. Scuff sanded it lightly after 20 minutes to knock down the fibers using a fine sanding block. It is ready for the second coat.

Why did you choose this product?

View attachment 201447View attachment 201448

I like oil finishes and have used this product a lot in the past with no problems.

 

[bobby g]

I would try lacquer thinner or acetone to get the GF product off. Brush on and then scrape off. Gloves and eye protection, please

I tried acetone on a test piece and it seemed to work well. I just wiped it on and wiped off the finish. Did this twice. If I can work outside tomorrow, I'm going to remove the finish from my 2 project pieces.

 

[chris_goris]

Willem, the problem with precat lacquers is they look like plastic (because they basically are). Not everyone wants quick plastic wood look finishes.It doesnt give any depth to a wooden piece. Nor do we need a gallon of a certain finish generally. Im guessing the problem here was some odd chemical reaction with the wood and sealer because GF makes some of the finest finishing products available. Especially their new waterborne products, they are outstanding. Many dry as fast as precat lacquers also.

 

[Willemjm]

Willem, the problem with precat lacquers is they look like plastic (because they basically are). Not everyone wants quick plastic wood look finishes.It doesnt give any depth to a wooden piece. Nor do we need a gallon of a certain finish generally. Im guessing the problem here was some odd chemical reaction with the wood and sealer because GF makes some of the finest finishing products available. Especially their new waterborne products, they are outstanding. Many dry as fast as precat lacquers also.

I normally don’t use precat, this was a rush job no time to order in. It is really hard to beat the look of Campbells 2K Urethane with anything else for clarity and depth. CV is a very close second. Not a Sherman Williams fan, but their Acrylic Conversion coating looks pretty good also. General Finishes makes a precat also, have never tried any of their products.

We can’t afford to play around with shellac sealers or finishes, first there is a durability issue and second the job time needed is multiple more hours. Waterborne has come a long way, but drying times are still slower and sanding the wash or seal coat remains difficult in terms of the time needed.

I’m not sure where the “plastic” perception of precat comes from? It is basically a nitro with a catalyst reaction and will always look better than poly urethane. 95% of the mass production industry use precat. We are a dealer for Bridgewood, which is really high end, their drawer boxes are available in walnut, which sounds crazy, but that is what some customers want. There is absolutely no plastic look on their precat finishes.

Pre-cat is basically nitro (cellulose from cotton and wood pulp) with urea added and fast drying solvents using an acid catalyst. (Think epoxy) There are no plastic (polyolefins)

For a piano or guitar finish, good old nitro still remains the industry standard. That is what Gibson uses.

The automotive industry has switched to urethanes and their clear coats will look just as good as Campbells 2K, on wood. The problem is a high end PPG coating can cost up to $150 a pint for the small guy.

Linky

All About Lacquers - How to Choose the Right Finish - FineWoodworking

There are several different types of lacquers available to woodworkers. Understanding their characteristics will help you choose the right one.

www.finewoodworking.com

 

[bobby g]

Thanks to all of you for your thoughtful suggestions. I wiped the sticky finish off with acetone - twice. I then reapplied the oil based top coat. Same problem as before. I ended up taking the sticky oil finish off again. I wiped it twice with a rag wet with acetone hoping that it wouldn't penetrate and mess with the Franklin veneer glue. It didn't seem to. Then I let it set for 2 days while I experimented with General Finishes high performance water based top coat. That worked well on some veneer scraps so I decided to go with it. This morning I did a final wipe with acetone and let the pieces dry outside in the fresh air for a few hours. I brought them in, dusted them and applied a coat of the finish. It looked good! This afternoon I sanded the surfaces with 320 grit sandpaper and applied a second coat. The results are good but it sure doesn't look like an oil based finish but a good tradeoff from starting over. I'll do 2 more coats and then start the assembly.



This is the model of the project.

 

[jlimey]

Bob,

Glad that you are on your way again. Beautiful veneer!