Hating the Finishing Part

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Jeff

New User
Jeff
It seems that most/many of us really hate and dread the finishing part of a project so I'm just curious about what's the psychology that drives that mindset for you. :dontknow:

1. We use high quality wood species that aren't cheap.

2. We take great pains to cut accurate and precise fitting joints. We plane, sand, prep, and get ready for the glue-up.

3. Now it's finishing...arghhh, arghhh, arghhh! What a PITA! :BangHead:

After we expend so much effort to get to that point why is it such a scary task? In a hurry and just want to complete it? Lack of finishing experience?
Confused by different finishing techniques and the many finish options available to us? Or simply where to start and how to do it so I don't screw it up at this point?

Just curious what your individual approaches are to the topic.

Thanks.
 

CDPeters

Master of None
Chris
In a hurry and just want to complete it?

To some extent, yes...

Lack of finishing experience?

Most definitely...

Confused by different finishing techniques and the many finish options available to us?

Absolutely...:icon_scra

Or simply where to start and how to do it so I don't screw it up at this point?

The fear factor definitely comes into play. :eusa_pray

For me, it's a lack of competence, which leads to a lack of confidence. Though I've recently discovered the joys of shellac. With each project I do, I get better at it. Definitely for me the main thing is to have the patience to do enough coats with the requisite prep in between to get the result I'm after.

This would be a place where I could definitely benefit from taking a class or two - Mike :gar-Bi
C.
 

victoon

New User
Victor
I think finishing requires zen like patience. It’s hard for us weekend warriors to develop this when we just want to get something done.
Also maybe part of the reason we like wood working is we like toys and mechanical work. And finish is not like that. I have always liked physics and hated chemistry.
 

Bill Clemmons

Bill
Corporate Member
For me it was always a combination of two factors: the closer I get to the end of a project (not just woodworking) the more anxious I get to complete it and move on to the next one. Also, I never felt my finishing skills were as good as my construction skills, so I was afraid I would screw it up in the last phase of the project. After all, it is the finish that most non-woodworkers will look at to determine if a piece is good or not.

Since I retired I've developed more patience, probably since I have the luxury of spending more time in the shop and don't feel the pressure to rush it. Also, I've forced myself to learn more about finishing, and experimented w/ different techniques on some of my "shop furniture" projects. Still a long way from where I want to be, but I'm getting there.

Bill
 

merrill77

Master Scrap Maker
Chris
I think it's a combination of

  1. It is very different from the rest of the process, and thus possibly not interesting to all who are interested in design and construction
  2. It can be difficult and mysterious. Most WW magazines devote only a page or two to finishing. It is almost treated like a dark art.
  3. Getting near the end of a project and just want it done
  4. Not realizing, at least not early enough, that the finish is as important as (perhaps MORE important than) any other part of the process.
I know I've struggled with it. I've tried to start thinking about finishing much earlier in the process. I start experimenting with my finish on scraps as soon as I have some - since that can be done in parallel with construction. I now start some of the early finishing steps right after milling - like taking the planes and scrapers to surfaces to prep them for finish. I don't wait until the piece is assembled anymore.

Read, learn and practice. Then practice some more. And more. I've read many of Flexner's chapters several times...and I'll re-read them many more times, I suspect.

Chris
 

DWSmith

New User
David
I love the finishing part. Sure it is a PITA but the results can either make of break a piece I have worked so hard on. This is when the real beauty of the wood will finally appear.

It also reminds me of the summer I spent working with my Dad in the finishing room of the furniture plant he was the manager of. He patiently taught me how to handle a spray gun and taught me the steps to a high quality finish. The end result will only be as good as the preperation and the in-between steps.

I guess I am an old school person. I detest polyurethane in all forms, just to blasted plastic and cheap looking. I much prefer shellac or lacquer.
 

BillGriz

New User
Bill
Fiinishing part is painful!!!
Because;
1. I suck at it. .....working on it.....getting better....just suck a little less.
2. Lack of patience with it because I suck at it. I find it difficult to take the time to get it right.
3. Lack of knowledge (type of finish, best finish for project, finishing techniques). Got some good info off this site a few weeks ago and trying it out on a project I'm finishing right now.
4. Want to get it done!!

Bill
 

Glennbear

Moderator
Glenn
All of the previous posts make perfect sense and I think that I could safely say that all apply to me also. I do however believe that for me unlike construction, finishing has far many more variables, type of finish, application method, shop humidity, shop temperature, etc etc ad infinitum. :gar-La;
 

TBradley190

New User
Tim
I agree with you Glenn, it all applies to me also. Lack of knowledge probably more than anything else. I find myself looking for a new receipe everytime I start another project, only to get frustrated in the end because it's still not the look I'm trying to achieve. I always tell myself I'm not going to get in a hurry, but I wind up rushing anyway.

Wood species also stumps me more than anything. What looks good and works well on one doesn't on another. Getting consistant results with pine and cherry without a blotchy look is still a problem I run into. And I don't even want to get into topcoat issues, except it looks good from a distance. :icon_scra


Tim
 

Jeff

New User
Jeff
I agree with you Glenn, it all applies to me also. Lack of knowledge probably more than anything else. I find myself looking for a new receipe everytime I start another project, only to get frustrated in the end because it's still not the look I'm trying to achieve. I always tell myself I'm not going to get in a hurry, but I wind up rushing anyway.

Wood species also stumps me more than anything. What looks good and works well on one doesn't on another. Getting consistant results with pine and cherry without a blotchy look is still a problem I run into. And I don't even want to get into topcoat issues, except it looks good from a distance. :icon_scra


Tim

Pine & cherry are two of the most problematic and splotch prone because of the variations in grain density. The softer areas soak up more stain than their harder/less porous counterparts. Two solutions that work well at overcoming this: First apply a dilute sealer coat of shellac (Zinnser Seal Coat is 100% dewaxed in a 2 lb. cut)-dilute to about 0.5-1 lb. and slather it on liberally with a rag; Second option is to try a gel stain. Gel stains remain on the surface and don't penetrate like a typical stain. As always try one or both on some scraps before committing to a final finish regimen. :icon_cheers
 

Bas

Recovering tool addict
Bas
Corporate Member
Apart from understanding finishing, I think many people dread it because of the time and effort involved. If you have the opportunity to spray shellac, you can knock out the finishing process very quickly, but if you're using some oil-based wiping varnish you're looking at many days of application and drying. And in between there is sanding, vacuuming and cleaning of course. If you're lucky enough to have a separate finishing room, this is not a huge deal, but if the project is in your main shop taking up space, you're held hostage until you're done. Plus, any dust you produce will ruin the finish, so you can't even get started on something small. The weather can be a problem too. Finishing in this heat/ humidity is problematic.
 

moodyfloyd

New User
Shawn
I agree with Bas,

Every time I get to the finishing stage, spring cleaning must take place in my garage before I can be comfortable beginning the finishing process. Usually, it's either too hot or too cold out as well, playing it's own role in the frustration. I also have no room (but not enough tools at the same time). If I had a separate space for finishing, I could continue working on other things while waiting in between the steps of finishing, but instead, like others have said, that project takes the shop hostage until complete and removed from the work area. Reasons like these, that put such a restraint on my useable time, really limit my capable level of output. Every new project I take on, finishing is a new challenge, but exciting as you see the final stage reveal itself. The anticipation of completion turns into lack of patience often. For me, time is precious, and limited space costs me time, and irritation. Finishing requires time and space. The battle continues.:qleft7::qright5:
 

merrill77

Master Scrap Maker
Chris
Apart from understanding finishing, I think many people dread it because of the time and effort involved. If you have the opportunity to spray shellac, you can knock out the finishing process very quickly, but if you're using some oil-based wiping varnish you're looking at many days of application and drying. And in between there is sanding, vacuuming and cleaning of course. If you're lucky enough to have a separate finishing room, this is not a huge deal, but if the project is in your main shop taking up space, you're held hostage until you're done. Plus, any dust you produce will ruin the finish, so you can't even get started on something small. The weather can be a problem too. Finishing in this heat/ humidity is problematic.

I mentioned in another thread that shellac is my favorite finish - and the issues above are some of the reasons. I don't have a separate finishing space...likely never will. I'm working on 2 projects right now, one is in finishing and the other starting joinery. Shellac dries so fast that dust is not an issue. I'll brush on a coat and 20 minutes later I'm using the TS and router...no worries!
 

richlife

New User
Rich
I mentioned in another thread that shellac is my favorite finish - and the issues above are some of the reasons. I don't have a separate finishing space...likely never will. I'm working on 2 projects right now, one is in finishing and the other starting joinery. Shellac dries so fast that dust is not an issue. I'll brush on a coat and 20 minutes later I'm using the TS and router...no worries!

This has been fascinating reading for me. One reason is that I really love the finishing process. No matter what the finish, the initial, immediate visual impact is fantastic! Then the successive and gradual improvement to the result I want is very satisfying.

Two recommendations: 1 - get a separate finish space even if it's small. 2 - pick a finish or two and practice. Bob Flexner's book on Finishing is a great starting point -- read it!

Learning to finish is key. My first task was just learning to deal with and develop expertise with the finishes that I use -- this is where Flexner's book came in. As you get more confident, there is less dread. Pick one or two easy finishes to develop expertise with. I like tung or boiled linseed oil, also a mix of these with polyurethane, and shellac. Polyurethane by itself can work, but is mostly disappointing unless great care with final finish work is taken. I don't use spray equipment at all -- just hand application.

But most important to me (and my main recommendation) is to have a separate finish space (no matter how small). I started by just separating a part of a cabinet with sliding plastic doors to minimize air flow and dust penetration. For bigger projects, like most, I had to just clean up and close off my workshop -- terribly frustrating and only partially successful in protecting the finish. Then when I built a separate finish room on my shop, everything changed. Now I can ensure a clean environment and I can work on other milling, shaping and assembly stuff without fear for my finish. And I can do the finishing as the mood strikes me. All this is worth the time, effort and small cost needed to get me there. (My total basic cost in 2007 for my 9x10' finish room was $1300 including large window, custom made French doors, AC, and air cleaner. Since then I've added, additional working surfaces, cabinets, display cases, etc. -- but still at minimal cost.) I set up for a nice spray booth, but it gets very little use with spray cans.

Whether you choose to divide off a relatively small closet or build on another space, having a separate space for finishing (even with shellac) can totally change your attitude about finishing (just be sure to account for proper air flow and exhaust -- your lungs do matter). And my space doubles as my primary assembly room and storage/display room also.

Rich
 

Canuck

Wayne
Corporate Member
One of the most frustrating elements of woodworking for me is finishing!!!!!!!!!!!!:BangHead::BangHead:

I try to do everything "by the book" and still get bitten.

Latest project was and end table and coffee table one of my daughters insisted on being black.

Started off with a sanding schedule through 180 grit.

Raised the grain with water, dried and sanded with 200 Grit to knock off the nips.

Applied two coats of Transtint black dye (over RO).

48 hours later, I apply 1 coat of oil based ebony stain.

48 hours later, I start applying wiping varnish.

After the second coats (24 hours apart), there is a streak about two inches wide through the entire length of the coffee table top where the wiping varnish is not adhering!!!!:elvis: New can of Minwax Satin poly. Aprons, legs all look great!

Wo is Me. Back to sanding and trying again.

The Finishing Gods are all against me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:roll::roll:

I really do despise finishing with anything other than a coat of clear shellac.

Wayne

(Guess I just needed somewhere to vent!!!!)
 
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CrealBilly

New User
Jeff
I like finishing it's the best part of wood working...

[RANT ON] Seal with clear, tint with toner. Stain is a bad 5 letter word - they don't lie when they call it wood stain -that's exactly what it is... stain. Think about it, would you want a stain on your nice piece of furniture? Why of course you wouldn't, so why put brush fulls on it now, because the jar says minwax, general or jell? might as well spill coffee on it or smear some jello on it to... want a different color? Use a different species of wood, wood comes in almost all colors of the rainbow and then some. [RANT OFF]

Disclaimer
Nothing personally directed at anyone - just me RANTING again :) Having been paid to repair, touchup, finish and refinish furinture since I was 12 years old. Believe me when I say... I've seen some strange stuff in my life. Stay far away from stain, you won't regret it when it comes time to refinish the worn finish of your master piece.
 

Howard Acheson

New User
Howard
Sounds like some sort of contamination got on the surface. If so, sanding may not remove it if it is soaked into the grain. You may have to use a chemical stripper and remove all the finish, apply a dewaxed shellac barrier coat between the pigment stain and your clear coats.
 

mckenziedrums

New User
Tim
I like finishing it's the best part of wood working...

[RANT ON] Seal with clear, tint with toner. Stain is a bad 5 letter word - they don't lie when they call it wood stain -that's exactly what it is... stain. Think about it, would you want a stain on your nice piece of furniture? Why of course you wouldn't, so why put brush fulls on it now, because the jar says minwax, general or jell? might as well spill coffee on it or smear some jello on it to... want a different color? Use a different species of wood, wood comes in almost all colors of the rainbow and then some. [RANT OFF]

:icon_thum

Best thing I ever learned about finishing up there. Every time I get someone that asked me to refinish a drum I have to pray that it's tint coated and not stained. Typically drums are made from thin veneers and trying to sand through the stain typically results in sanding right to a nice layer of glue that then dictates a paint job instead of seeing beautiful wood grain. I still think dyeing or staining wood has it's place but learning to use tint coats is a must.
 
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