Groz Planes?

[WoodWrangler]

Woodcraft sells a line of planes by the name "Groz". The LOML got me a two-plane set for Christmas, and with the current sale I picked up the #5 for $30.

I haven't had the opportunity to use them yet (gotta learn how to use them first!), but I was curious about your opinions on them. Any good? I figured for the price they must be worth at least that.

 

[DaveO]

I've got a Groz machinist square set and it's square :icon_thum
I've got a Groz low angle block plane and it works well but the throat opening adjustment won't let it close tight enough to the blade as it should be.
I think that I just got a bad one, too bad I waited too long of a while before I decided to sharpen and use it to feel right about returning it.
Dave

 

[sediener]

I've got a Groz low angle block plane and it works well but the throat opening adjustment won't let it close tight enough to the blade as it should be.

I have the same one and it has the same problem... Can't get smaller than 1/16" of a throat opening. I won't be buying another Groz.

- Steve

 

[Badabing]

I really think it's hit or miss with those Groz planes. I picked up a low angle block plane and had nothing but trouble tuning it. I did some research because I really had no idea what I was doing and it turns out that the darn thing was fubar. I brought it back and exchanged it and the new one was just about perfect out of the box. Go figure :icon_scra

If you don't mind the chances of having to exchange it and possibly spending a bit of time tuning, then it's a good deal. I'd probably buy another one now that I know to open it up first and check it out. BTW, I got the #4 and it was fine on the first try :wsmile:

 

[jeff...]

Where's it made at?

 

[erasmussen]

Where's it made at?

I read where they are made in India, dont know if thats true or not, but it sounds about right:eusa_thin

 

[jeff...]

I read where they are made in India, dont know if thats true or not, but it sounds about right:eusa_thin

India? No wonder... you don't get a IT help desk jockey or a telemarketer to make hand planes, now do you?

 

[redhawknc1]

There are many planes that suit many different purposes. All depends on what the final objective is... And many different makers from current Stanley to a New Lie-Nielson. If you buy a cheap plane, most of the time a lot of frustration comes with it. Even knowing how to fettle or tune a plane, some planes just will never be suitable for fine woodworking. Tuning may be imposable or difficult. Soles may not be flat. If you are just planing a door that is sticking, the lower end planes will work as long as you can sharpen the blade and set up the plane. You will never really know how good a plane works until you have had the chance to use a superior plane such as a Lie-Nielson. I have a friend who is an old retired fellow who is teaching me woodworking skills as a mentor. He always purchased cheap blades for his unisaw. He knows I keep a good selection of blades in my shop. He calls and says his blade is dull, what do I have. In the end he purchased a Forrest WWII from me. Last evening, he called and sung praises for the Forrest Blade. Planes are kinda like that. Until you have actually used a great plane you never really know what you were missing! Many of the Stanley Bailey series make good users, but again you have to know how to set up the plane and tune it and even which vintage to buy( at least pre-WWII. With a Lie-Nielson that part is already taken care of. You have a factory plane ready to use as soon as you open the box. I have 2 Lie-Nielsons and a Stanley #3, #5 Stanley Bailey's with a #5 1/2 and a 6 on the way. The reason for the Stanley is that I like to tinker with planes and like the fact I am using a 100 year old tool. The reasons for the Lie-Nielsons is I know the plane is going to do exactly what I expect of it. Lie-Nielsons do come along ocaisonally, such as the #4 Bronze I bought from someone going through a divorce. I have no opinions on the Groz Line because I have not used them, so I am not qualified to give any opinions.Get with someone familar with planes and try a few and you will soon be addicted. Another slippery slope, I warn you! I have found hand tools has added a lot to my woodworking hobby. And nice chisels are fun too! I'll still keep my tailed tools, but introducing the hand tools to the shop has been great.

 

[Nativespec]

I noticed that the Groz planes are not locked up in the case at Woodcraft. They might as well leave them outside at night If you want to try out some nice planes, yor are welcome to come by and try mine-I have plenty of Lee Valley and Lie Nielson. Both are great quality. Lie Nielson is more traditional and they have more models to choose from. Lee Valley does not have as many models, but they are much more innovative. I bought a Lie Nielson blade and chipper for an old Stanley No. 4 I got from a friend, but I wish I had just bought a better plane.

The funny thing is that you don't see many of the L planes for sale on CL-must be a reason.

David

 

[michaelgarner]

Jeremy,
The fellows are right about the Lie Nelson planes. I do not have one but I have used and they rock. I have about a bazillion Bailey planes Pre-WWII and after. I love them, they do take some time to get going but once they are tuned they work very well. I also have some planes that were considered lower end during the Stanley Era of production, Craftsman, WardsMaster, and a really nice set of Dunlap Planes. They all work wonderful once they are tuned up. Some do need new blades and chip breakers that are better. Here is a link from Rockler with reviews about the same planes you have. The people like them a lot. They changed the blades and chip breakers with HOCk blades. But they said they were great users. You have a good score friend. Just know that you will need to tune them a little so that both you and the plane have a good time.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?Offerings_ID=11136&cookietest=1&TabSelect=Reviews

 

[Sandy Rose]

Jeremy,
I bought one of their low-angle block planes for planing end-grain pieces. I first tuned up the sole and blade and it seems to work very well for this purpose. I think that Groz is a better plane for that price range than the other ones you can find at Home Depot/Lowes-type places. I purchased a Stanley block plane last year and ended up throwing it away. Luckly my dad collects old planes and he hooked me up with a bunch of them and everyone is right, the old ones work the best. A new Lie-Nielsen plane is just too high-dollar for me right now, so the old ones and a well-tuned Groz will do right now.

 

[froglips]

My 2 cents.....

For the money, they are a good deal. They are not going to be flat, true, super sharp etc.

I view a plane like a Groz as a full overhaul project plane without having to remove rust or hunt for missing parts.

Keep in mind, they will frustrate you until they are tuned up. I recall all the time I've spent beating my head against the wall "learning" that a plane needs tuned.

If you value your time over $$ and prefer things to work out of the box, Lie Nielson, Veritas or Clifton are sure fire winners.

Jim

 

[WoodWrangler]

Honestly, I don't know much about hand planes ... so I've got a lot to learn. But I think that's the next thing I need to learn anyway ...

I'll give the Groz a try ... afterall, I've got about $30 tied up in three planes (two given as gifts) ... so worth a shot. It does appear to be hit or miss from everything I've read and from this feedback.

If I wanted a better blade for them, where do you buy them and what should I expect to pay?

I think I'll save the pennies though and buy a Lie eventually!

 

[Nativespec]

Lie Nielson, Lee Valley and Hock. You can buy Hock and Lie Nielson at Woodcraft and all 3 sell through their web site.

David

 

[jerrye]

Could these be a way to learn how to tune a plane? Looks like you need to set these up from the get-go, so maybe these are "training wheels" equipped for those of us looking to get into neander tools, without breaking the bank?:eusa_thin

 

[michaelgarner]

I would go with the Hock blade and chip breaker. That way when you do get a really nice handplane it can be a second blade and chip breaker that is already sharpened. Besides once you start buying hand planes its all over, before you know it you will probably have more than what you really need.

 

[jglord]

I agree, planes like the Groz do take work to properly tune to cut well, but it can be done. My thinking is they are good beginner planes. You will learn a lot in going through the process, which will still be useful when and if you move up to one of the top of the line planes.

The equation that worked for me was when I was using my plane enough where the constant effort to keep it working (i.e. sharp, flat, adjusted to cut properly) was frustrating - I bought a Lie-Nielsen. The Lie-Nielsen are ready to cut with a minimal effort, and best of all, the stay that way for a long time. I not only use my planes in my own work, but provide them to students in my classes. The time between tune-ups is measured in weeks, not the days between tuning it was taking with the Stanley.

I've traded the extra cost of the great planes for the time it takes to keep them cutting beautifully. And, make no mistake about it, they do cut beautifully. People who use the planes are always amazed at how well/ how different the Lie-Nielsen planes cut.

Are they worth it? Yes, if you're going to use them regularly. On the other hand, if you take the plunge, you'll quickly learn how well they work and find lots of reasons for using your plane. You'll probably also be purchasing more.:icon_thum

 

[JimmyC]

Supposedly the Groz planes are made from the old record casting molds, I dunno, All I have are Stanley and Record planes, most of my Stanleys were bought old but are really usable. I know that Lee Valley, Lie-Nielsen, and Clifton planes are the best, but right now I'm not worthy enough. Besides, if I had enough money for a #60, #5 and #7 of any of those planes right now, I'd buy a better DC system (cyclone) for the same money.

My .02

Jimmy

 

[JimReed2160]

This journey may not take you where you want to go, but it should be interesting. The comments have all been right on target. It really depends on what you need to do. Groz planes are well suited to house carpentry. If you have a sticky door, this is your go to tool. For anything more, you need a good bench plane. Even with tuning, there will be blade issues and unacceptable backlash in the Bailey style adjuster. If you keep your expectations low, you may be surprised. Dog a piece of 2x4 on the bench and go to it. Good luck.

 

[Nativespec]

All this discussion has got me interested in the Junior Jack 5 1/4 and 10 1/4 Jack Rabbit.

David