General contractor asks for a non-code cabinet.

Willemjm

Willem
Corporate Member
One of the big builders here, remodeling his own house just purchased.
Sends me a drawing for a cabinet, I price it and send a quote, he sends a check for deposit. I don’t the cash the check, as I don’t have enough information to do the job right.
Go to his house to measure and find out he wants to build a pantry cabinet which will cover his entire electrical panel. Wants a section open on the cabinet back so the panel can be be accessed.

Not allowed, NEC chapter 10.26 against code. Suggested we abort and handed him his check back.

Shouldn’t a GC know this?
 

Brantnative

Jeff
Corporate Member
Personally I think you did the right thing. Of course he knows. Alternatively you could build the pantry and let him install it and put the cutout in. No profit on the install but some is better than none.
 

Mike Davis

Mike
Corporate Member
Either way when things go wrong you will get at least part of the blame. You did what I would do.
 

Sourwould

New User
Taylor
Fixed that for you.

"shouldn't a GC give a sh*t"

Despite what you may have been told, the cream does not rise to the top. Many a GC license has been purchased with daddy's money.
 

Phil S

Phil Soper
Staff member
Corporate Member
As a GC, I will tell you that many do give a darn. I ran into the same situation a few years back on a commercial job. The inspector let us install casters on a large bookshelf to hide a large sub panel. The building inspector, the electrical inspector and the Fire Marshall all agreed the fix was ok.
 

Willemjm

Willem
Corporate Member
Fixed that for you.

"shouldn't a GC give a sh*t"

Despite what you may have been told, the cream does not rise to the top. Many a GC license has been purchased with daddy's money.
Yep, this one married into the builder family, so I guess it was daddy in law buying the license. I did close to $6,000 custom work for him via the cabinet company, but he treated the cabinet rep so bad, I had to intervene and start working with him directly. Has a three star rating on Google.
 

Jim M.

Woody
Corporate Member
Good for you for walking away. I hold a Class B Contractor license in Virginia, I would never ask a sub to violate code. My father taught me you can buy anything you want in life but a good reputation, morals and self respect.
 

junquecol

Bruce
Senior User
Because he is a GENERAL contractor, and not an ELECTRICAL contractor, he shouldn't be expected to know the electrical code. That is what he hires electricians for.
 

Willemjm

Willem
Corporate Member
Because he is a GENERAL contractor, and not an ELECTRICAL contractor, he shouldn't be expected to know the electrical code. That is what he hires electricians for.
I always find that interesting. I was educated in a different country. I am neither a GC nor an Electrical contractor, but as an Engineer (mechanical major, electrical and civil minor) I am expected to know that. Our education was based on the principles that if you were a GC building houses, you should be in a position where anything you ask a sub to do or anyone else to do, you know how to do yourself.

Based on the principles of narrow field knowledge, the GC would have little knowledge of anyone he hires as they are the experts? It would mean the electrician finishes his job, installed the panel, knows the code. Then comes the cabinet guy, follows the directions of the GC who knows nothing electrical and installs a cabinet over the electrical panel. Then comes the inspector and the inspection fails, and no one is responsible?

Maybe common sense has just become a very rare commodity?
 
Last edited:

JCAlton

New User
Cody Alton
Its been quite a while since I was in construction but the GC in my experience knew a good bit of the code, maybe not all the specific details of each trade but had general knowledge. Anything they didn't know they would run by the tradesmen that would know. Atleast a good GC will. Some would just give their best guess.

But ignoring whether a GC should know all of the electrical code or not, one would hope that they would know the basics like panel clearance requirements.
 

Oka

Casey
Corporate Member
You did the right thing, I deal with legal fallout for the company on the Multiple trades issues. If you have a pix to share that would be interesting.

In general, the way the construction defect courts see this kind of stuff is:

Even if your plans call for it, the client demands it and give you a release letter stating they will take all liability, you are still culpable to some extent... because ... you are the professional and should know better.

What you could do is build the cabinet but let him install it, then you are only a vendor. What he does is his problem. If you do, just keep a copy of an email stating you do not recommend him installing in such a manner since it is non compliant.
 

Rick Mainhart

Rick
Corporate Member
Good morning Willem

OSHA regulations apply to commercial installations:

Blocking electrical panels that house circuit breakers as shown in Figure 1 is a violation of both Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) regulations and National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) codes. These regulations require accessibility to the front of electrical panels to have a minimum of three feet of clearance and a minimum width to be the width of the equipment or 2.5 feet, whichever is greater. This assures that in case of an electrical emergency, there is a clear work-ing space in front for quick access to the circuit breakers. Having up-to-date directories of circuit breakers also saves time.

(Link: https://www.ocwr.gov/sites/default/...s/2010/03/fastfacts_electricalpanelaccess.pdf )

I would not block or conceal electrical panels in any instance. I think your action to not participate is absolutely correct.

Regards,

Rick
 

Pop Golden

New User
Pop
Codes or no codes good sense should tell you blocking a electrical panel is a no no. If you have a problem you want access to that panel as fast as possible.

Pop :cool:
 

Gotcha6

Dennis
Staff member
Corporate Member
Old school story about panel clearances:
Electrician working in a live panel grabs a hot wire. Jumps back and throws his arms to the side (before clearance requiremets) and breaks both arms. Told to me by an instructor in a basic electrical code class 49 years ago. Never forgot it......
OTOH I did a remodel some 25 +- years ago where the main panel was above the washing machine in the basement. Needless to say it was an older (1950s) house. Hard to get access to that one too.
 

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