Finishing mistake

[Willemjm]

I have built a Library Table out of quarter sawn white oak and made a bad finishing mistake.
I did not use filler and have finished with three coats of Rockhard Table Top Varnish and the grain pores are visible.

Do I have to sand off to bare wood and start over or is there something I can do now to correct. When I finish sanding they were not visible.

If you want to fill the grain pores with a grain filler, the standard practice is to first do a seal coat, then fill the pores. So in short, in your situation I would sand lightly with 220 grit (LOL you already have three seal coats), then apply a grain filler for which there are many options, then do a final two coats.

Linky here:

https://www.canadianwoodworking.com/tipstechniques/3-easy-steps-grain-filling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHVoXZk-PF0&t=248s

 

[Larry R. Tysinger]

Just brushing in this case and I do wipe when the product suggest it can be wiped

 

[tarheelz]

I second Willem's advice.

I've had good luck with this stuff. Apply it with an old credit card to get it in all the remaining pores. (Might take two tries.) Apply it as thinly as you can (ie the goal is just to have it in the pores). Sand it smooth and then apply final coat of finish.

 

[Jeff]

Larry,

I did not use filler and have finished with three coats of Rockhard Table Top Varnish and the grain pores are visible.

Maybe I'm missing something along the way here and am not sure exactly what the OP was expecting after grain filling. :dontknow:

Is it ONLY the visibility that's objectionable or is it both the visibility AND feel to the touch even after 3 finish coats? The AquaCoat product sounds very good but it dries absolutely clear, so the grain pores will be filled but still visible to the eye unless the filler product is tinted with dye. :eusa_doh:

 

[Wyatt Co.]

Good assessment and question Jeff. I've used Aqua Coat and Crytalac. For me, the pore appearance is beautiful but the problem comes by way of texture. As in the kazillion divits on the surface.

 

[Jeff]

Good assessment and question Jeff. I've used Aqua Coat and Crytalac. For me, the pore appearance is beautiful but the problem comes by way of texture. As in the kazillion divits on the surface.

Here's a few examples that illustrate the points using the AquaCoat pore filler: Lots of VISIBLE grain but almost glass smooth to the touch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF0yrPyF

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ClzqlWIDfU

 

[Travis Porter]

In my opinion, you can keep adding layers of finish, sanding between coats to level until the finish is level. Basically, you are filling the pores with varnish.

Stripping to bare wood would be my choice of last resort.

 

[Willemjm]

In my opinion, you can keep adding layers of finish, sanding between coats to level until the finish is level. Basically, you are filling the pores with varnish.

Stripping to bare wood would be my choice of last resort.

I guess that depends on the type of finish, most professional catalysed finishes offering superior abrasion and chemical resistance will fail if the dry coating thickness exceeds 4 mils.

 

[Travis Porter]

I guess that depends on the type of finish, most professional catalysed finishes offering superior abrasion and chemical resistance will fail if the dry coating thickness exceeds 4 mils.

That is true, but I am doubtful this is catalyzed.

 

[Jeff]

It appears that the OP has dropped out of his own discussion. Maybe he forgot about it as we seniors are prone to do...

 

[danmart77]

I have built a Library Table out of quarter sawn white oak and made a bad finishing mistake.
I did not use filler and have finished with three coats of Rockhard Table Top Varnish and the grain pores are visible.

Do I have to sand off to bare wood and start over or is there something I can do now to correct. When I finish sanding they were not visible.

Lots of discussion about Rockhard Varnish. Is it oil based or water based? I will assume you are using Behlen's varnish.

Sanding between coats and other steps are different based on the carrier solvent.

 

[Jeff]

Dan, Behlen's has a low VOC formulation since 2012 and that's not = water-borne finish.

https://ardec.ca/en/p/450/rockhard-table-top-urethane-varnish

 

[jlwest]

I like the open pores. It shows it is real wood. Just my opinion

 

[danmart77]

Dan, Behlen's has a low VOC formulation since 2012 and that's not = water-borne finish.

https://ardec.ca/en/p/450/rockhard-table-top-urethane-varnish

Jeff I am getting schooled here but the can I purchased has easy clean up with water on one of the labels. I have been cleaning brushes and my cheap spray gun with water. I was up visiting family in Winston Salem and I ran off for an hour to the local woodworking store in search of some sandpaper(I buy some every few years) when I spotted the Behlen RH reduced. For 20/qt I thought I would give it a try. I bought the semi gloss to cover milk paint on chairs and I wanted a tough coating on these tables I was building back in 2016.

The RH has very good adhesion to the milk paint and the latex that I use. I went on to test it against the Minwax water based poly and truthfully I can not find much difference between the two varnishes. Both the RH and the Minwax dry very quickly and that's a plus on top of the odorless work area.

Looking on the internet, most of the RH from Behlen sells for double the price of the minwax.

Maybe someone will straighten me out here on something major but they both work well and one is half the price of the other??

​

 

[Jeff]

Yes, Behlen's has a Rockhard Waterborne brushing varnish that's a water cleanup.

https://woodworker.com/rockhard-sat...varnish-mssu-172-214.asp?search=&searchmode=2

Jeff I am getting schooled here

Maybe someone will straighten me out here on something major but they both work well and one is half the price of the other??

So what's the question?

Equal performance and 1/2 the cost = +1 to Minwax poly?

 

[Wyatt Co.]

Yes, Behlen's has a Rockhard Waterborne brushing varnish that's a water cleanup.

https://woodworker.com/rockhard-sat...varnish-mssu-172-214.asp?search=&searchmode=2





So what's the question?

Equal performance and 1/2 the cost = +1 to Minwax poly?

He's simply replying to your comment/claim man. Nothing more, nothing less.

In short, Behlen's is not what it used to be and is comparable to many other products. The company that started "rockhard" isn't the company that makes it anymore. It's sold at higher prices because if it's name now and nothing more.

Period.

 

[Willemjm]

He's simply replying to your comment/claim man. Nothing more, nothing less.

In short, Behlen's is not what it used to be and is comparable to many other products. The company that started "rockhard" isn't the company that makes it anymore. It's sold at higher prices because if it's name now and nothing more.

Period.

Behlin, here: http://www.hbehlen.com/ owns Lenmar Coatings here: http://lenmar-coatings.com/pro

I believe the latter is where their revenue comes from in professional big production cabinet work, while the former is for the hobby consumer and less important. Personally, I have never used a Behlin product, however after using their Lenmar professional coatings for some time I can only give them 5 stars as they are superb both in the little time needed to apply a finish and the professional look with durability. I can't imagine using a coating that needs 14 hours to dry and having to brush or wipe it on with sanding between multiple coats. With their professional coatings starting with raw sanded wood, to sealing, scuff sanding, to final coat takes the best part of 90 minutes and the pieces can be handled by hand to move into storage after 2 hours from starting the finishing job.

 

[Larry R. Tysinger]

I have used two coats of thinned Rockhard this past weekend. That has helped the pore problem and I plan on doing a couple more thinned and a last coat of not thinned. I don't think I will need to take it back to bare wood.

I appreciate all the good advice and I have purchased Aqua Coat and watch video how to apply. I plan on using that product and not making mistake again.

 

[Wyatt Co.]

Happy to see you're getting it worked out Ty. Although unfortunate and aggravating, it was a great lesson. We've all been there and the lot of us will be there tomorrow.

 

[danmart77]

Yes, Behlen's has a Rockhard Waterborne brushing varnish that's a water cleanup.

https://woodworker.com/rockhard-sat...varnish-mssu-172-214.asp?search=&searchmode=2





So what's the question?

Equal performance and 1/2 the cost = +1 to Minwax poly?

Don't know if it is a question at this point.

From the reply and address you wrote in #32 I was under the impression after going to the Ardec site that the RH by Behlen with a special base and required mineral spirits clean up. Product 3603-28406.

I bought the water base RH. Where the confusion on this comes for me is all these products both oil and water being brand named as Rock Hard. My doubts came after reading the post here and not finding the water based RH in a search.

If you haven't used the water based RH you might not know it skins over like Waterlox and maybe faster. I solve this trouble by transferring it after the first use to glass jars filled to the top. The one I am using I put marbles in after use. So what? I tossed the can of Behlen RH with the instructions on the can. I did read it entirely and the instructions did refer to water clean up. Additionally, when you open the can it is skim milk and no odor. Identical to the other water based varnish by other sources.

For what its worth, I would not use this product with a brush or gun with out a retarder to slow down the dry rate and let it flow out a little longer. The can said 4 hours dry time but I can say it is quite a bit less.. more like 2 hours.

Repeating myself here I guess but I just don't find any difference to make the "Rockhard" worth the extra cost. I will post if my experience changes.

Thanks