Festool Domino

[Rick M]

There are a lot of cute joint and glue strength tests and almost all of them add up to squat. They are great for youtube views but mean little in real life because relative strength doesn't matter. All that matters is if a joint or glue is strong enough. Guys get hyperbolic because polyurethane glue is weaker than PVA but in real life both are strong enough. I've built light duty shelving with nothing but biscuits and glue and they are all still going strong, some decades old. But I wouldn't build a table with biscuits. Learn joinery, the how and why it works, and don't worry about it. All that said, I admit I bought a biscuit joiner because of Norm and it isn't a necessity but has been handy. The Domino looks pretty sweet but whether it's any better than dowels, time will tell. My prediction is that once the patents start running out, the next big thing will appear. Woodworking is nothing if not faddish.

 

[Matt Furjanic]

I made a set of dining room chairs, using dominoes rather than mortise and tenon joints. The dominoes go together easily and the joints are strong enough to sit on the chair before gluing! I mean, you are not rocking around after just dry fitting, but the chair stays together well enough. This takes the place of doing numerous mortise and tenon joints, saving lots of time. Once glued up, the chairs are just as strong as m-t joints. We use these chairs on a daily basis and they are as strong now as when they were made about 7 years ago. The domino jointer is a great time saving tool. I just love mine, and if I did not have one, I would go out and buy one today.

 

[Jeff]

Here are the tenon dimensions from Festool that are possible with the Domino XL500 (about $950) if you're interested.

Minimum Lumber Thickness	Tenon Size	Tenon Width	Tenon Length
1/2"	4 mm (5/32")	17 mm (21/32")	20 mm (25/32")
9/16"	5 mm (3/16")	19 mm (3/4")	30 mm (1-3/16")
3/4"	6 mm (7/32")	20 mm (25/32")	40 mm (1-9/16")
1"	8 mm (5/16")	22 mm (27/32")	40 mm (1-9/16") 50 mm (1-31/32")
1-3/16"	10 mm (25/64")	24 mm (15/16")	50 mm (1-31/32") 80 mm (3-5/32")

I sure can't justify the price. Easier to cut a tenon on the table saw/a mortise with a plunge router and I'm not in a big hurry even with several M&Ts to make.

 

[junquecol]

If those chairs had been made in a factory, they would have a couple dowels holding the joints together. I built some benches for local "Y" 12 years ago. The rails were joined to the leg with two 1/2" dowels. Benches were long enough for three people to sit on each one. That means between 300 to 600+ pounds could be on any bench at one time.

 

[danmart77]

I didn't go through all of the testing linked above, but I would love to see a test of a glued butt joint with and without a biscuit.

That is just a poor joint you have in this illustration. This shelf that is about to be hit with a hammer would not perform as long as a shelf set in a dado. The shoulder of the joint would provide support for the shelf as it was piled with books for example.

The joint you have above is a fine example of the quality of things made on an assembly line. It looks like a joint but its not very good. Couple that with being particle board and you have some of the offerings from the "cheap" furniture stores.

 

[Jeff]

Agreed! I think the point was to illustrate a butt joint held together with a biscuit. A typical biscuit would go about +/- 0.5" into the slot on both boards and that slot is typically 5/32" w (thick). I'll bet that joint with glue can be easily broken by hand (simulates a racking force).

That is just a poor joint you have in this illustration. This shelf that is about to be hit with a hammer would not perform as long as a shelf set in a dado. The shoulder of the joint would provide support for the shelf as it was piled with books for example.

The joint you have above is a fine example of the quality of things made on an assembly line. It looks like a joint but its not very good. Couple that with being particle board and you have some of the offerings from the "cheap" furniture stores.

 

[DavidF]

I had a feeling FWW did a review of the different types of join and biscuits came out pretty good I seem to remember. But having just built 6 dining room chairs using loose tenons next time I'm getting a Domino!

 

[AllanD]

I use both still. Dominoes are obviously stronger but what makes the biscuit attractive is I think it is quicker and easier. It references off the bottom of the machine whereas the domino typically references off the top. So putting a domino into the side of one of the pieces mean you balance the machine on the edge to place the mortise into the side whereas with the biscuit you can use your bench top to keep it all flat. Hope that makes sense. Not saying you can't use the domino differently but that is the way I understood the instructions.

While the biscuits are weaker I will admit that long before the domino came out I built some large shelves to hold medical folders. I made some with dadoes in sides and then in a rush made some just using biscuits to hold the shelves and they are holding up just as well. They both were holding much weight. They are used for other things nowadays since medical records are mostly paperless.

 

[Tarhead]

I had a feeling FWW did a review of the different types of join and biscuits came out pretty good I seem to remember. But having just built 6 dining room chairs using loose tenons next time I'm getting a Domino!

Hi David! Long time no see!

 

[DavidF]

Yeh, I know too long. This is a very rare opportunity to just sit in a hotel room chatting with you guys and come the morning it may be the last for a long time, but i'll try and be better at looking in.

 

[Jeff]

Yeh, I know too long. This is a very rare opportunity to just sit in a hotel room chatting with you guys and come the morning it may be the last for a long time, but i'll try and be better at looking in.

Why the last for a long time?

 

[Rwe2156]

Biscuits = alignment aid

Domino = joinery

I haven't used my biscuit joiner in I don't know when.

However, when I buy my Domino/Vacc combo next month, it will get a lot of use when I do the plantation shutter and kitchen reface projects.

:wwink:

 

[DavidF]

Well Jeff it's a question of opportunity and Carol / work balance. I am away travelling overseas a lot, often with a sales guy that I provide technical support for. That means meetings followed by dinners, back to the hotel late, fall in to bed and do it all over again. When I'm in the office, I am in front of a PC all day, home at 7pm. Then I need to spend quality time with Carol and Remi (new dog)before settling down for the evening or a quick 1/2 hr in the shop. Last Thing I want to do is more PC time. Lunch times are a thing of the past, and that about sums it up really. The only opportunities are like this one when I get a weekend in a hotel with nothing to do!! Other than that my times my own So, we might just have to wait until the next time.....but for sure, these little chats have re kindled the spark to have a chat with like minded folk. Although I do retire in 18 months time and then the world's my oyster!

 

[patlaw]

While I would really like to have a Domino, the new model with the new handle is probably the better way to go. It's $1500. That's a lot for the casual woodworker.

 

[Tarhead]

While I would really like to have a Domino, the new model with the new handle is probably the better way to go. It's $1500. That's a lot for the casual woodworker.

If money is the only drawback there are a few diy versions floating around you can make cheaply using a spare router and scrap plywood , nuts and bolts. http://paskmakes.com/product/handheld-mortiser-plans/ [video=youtube;KcD962oGykE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcD962oGykE[/video]