face frame to cabinet, or cabinet to face frame?

[tvrgeek]

Doing a new vanity. Have not done traditional face frame before.
One could built the face frame with all the perfect dados and then assemble the carcass to fit, or make the box and fit the face frame.

Which is SOP? Advantages? Disadvantages?

Surprised, I can't buy the router bits for the door stiles and panels for what I can buy a pair of pre-made doors. Let alone the wood. As this is not my usual style, not going to make the investment.

 

[Phil S]

I have several styles of stile and rail bits If I have what you need you could borrow them

 

[Bill Clemmons]

I always build the box first, then fit the frame to it. Don't know if there is an advantage or disadvantage, just the way I work.

 

[mkepke]

Don't know what 'standard practice' is (but there are books etc on commercial kitchen cabinet making) but I make the carcass first and fit the face frame to it for the few that I've done.

The face frame is more forgiving/easier to fix or redo if necessary.

-Mark

 

[Willemjm]

There is really no rule on what goes first and what comes second. At the end of the day, the assembled cabinet won't know the difference.

 

[Canuck]

Our own, Mr Scharle , taught me to try and build cabinets/boxes from the 'inside-out'. I build the carcass 1st and then embellish it with a face frame.

 

[Martin Roper]

I build the box first and then make the face frame a skosh oversized. Then use a flush trim bit to get it to match the box.

 

[tvrgeek]

Thanks. Just got back from the Hardwood store with a nice bit of birch to mill down. Now to get to work.

Phil, I'll remember that. This time around, taking the easy way out. When I get to my kitchen rehab, I will need to be pickier to match the dimensions, which are not quite the standard offered by pre-fab suppliers.

 

[Phil S]

Just to add a twist. I make the boxes first and then add one face frame. When I have a run of cabinets, as in the kitchen redo I am working on, I mount the boxes to the wall or island base and then add a face frame that connects all the boxes so they look like one unit. I just think it is a much cleaner look
I also always do inset doors and drawers, no overlays

 

[Skymaster]

Box first, then frame which squares up the box. I am back morning all

 

[Oka]

That Is how was taught, box then frame. ....... Hi Jack !

Box first, then frame which squares up the box. I am back morning all

 

[Rwe2156]

Yes, rail & stile bit sets aren't cheap.

re: FF there are advantages/disadvantages either way. For a unit that needs to fit between two walls, I prefer to build the FF first, and get it scribes & fitted to the dimensions. Easier than muscling a cabinet on and off the base. Maybe other ways to do it I haven't found on, other than adding moulding or trim strip against wall (MUCH easier than scribing!!).

Attaching the FF is often where the issue lies. If painted, you can simply glue, nail & fill. If natural wood, you can glue using biscuits/clamp to box before back installed.

 

[tvrgeek]

I usually do either inset or full overlap, so that is what is new to the partial overlap this time.

This particular unit is just floating vanity base so pretty tolerant all around. When I get to doing the kitchen pantry, I will take heed of the other advice.
Box is glued up. Man, this birch is a lot straighter than the oak I last used. Loving the Byrd head in the jointer. Planer after lunch. First project with the all new tools!

For attaching the face, I'll think about that. Probably just glue and biscuits should more than hold it. Hardest part is I have to bust open the wall to put in blocking to hold it. Then being my usual different self, cut the drywall for a flush fitting marble backsplash. Sounds crazy I know, but the project is for a very tight half bath and I am squeaking every bit of space I can. Vanity top is only 14 inches deep.

 

[Skymaster]

Aloha oka

 

[Charlie]

Unless a run of cabinets are over 12' long, I have always built one upper unit and one lower unit.
I never could understand why 8-12 lineal feet of cabinets with 8-10-12 doors/drawers consisted of 4 cabinets installed together. I always built that wall unit as one cabinet. In doing so you save material for 3 cabinet ends. It is much easier to install an 8' unit rather then 4 units and try to get everything in alignment. Then again, I have always built cabinets using rabbets, dadoes, etc. Never pocket hole screw. All face frames have 2 dowels at every joint. I recently saw a kitchen I did 45 years ago. Still looks as good as new.

 

[tvrgeek]

Well, I guess a decent days work. To increase glue surface, added some blocking. Pretty much just glue and pin nails. As a small vanity, not much stress. I'll decide if I am doing the doors or buying them. Guess I should look at my kitchen cabinets and get the bits to match. I think it will only take 4.

3/4 birch with 1/8 rabbets. 1/2 birch ply sides, 3/4 bottom. Guess tomorrow I rip out the old one and put the blocking in the wall. Top is pretty heavy ceramic and designed to be wall mounted, so I had to drop the rear brace and will have to lag the top to the wall blocking.

Jointer and planer worked like a champ.

Charlie, I agree. I prefer dowels to biscuits. I also agree in how much lost space in using modular cabinets. In many kitchens, every inch counts. Actually thinking about Craig's listing my biscuit tool.

 

[Hmerkle]

Scott,
You are already down the road, but I thought this was an interesting tutorial:

 

[chris_goris]

Unless a run of cabinets are over 12' long, I have always built one upper unit and one lower unit.
I never could understand why 8-12 lineal feet of cabinets with 8-10-12 doors/drawers consisted of 4 cabinets installed together. I always built that wall unit as one cabinet. In doing so you save material for 3 cabinet ends. It is much easier to install an 8' unit rather then 4 units and try to get everything in alignment.

I do the same thing Charlie, but the problem is having help to install......

 

[BSHuff]

I will build a face frame first when I want to have a scribed edge on one or both sides of the face frame. Find it is easier to figure out that fit and then make the box after I have determined how the face will fit.

I also like single cabinets for the uppers - I think you get more usable space in a cabinet. Lowers I like more boxes as I can more easily add drawers/shelves etc for pots/pans/etc.

 

[Willemjm]

Unless a run of cabinets are over 12' long, I have always built one upper unit and one lower unit.
I never could understand why 8-12 lineal feet of cabinets with 8-10-12 doors/drawers consisted of 4 cabinets installed together. I always built that wall unit as one cabinet. In doing so you save material for 3 cabinet ends. It is much easier to install an 8' unit rather then 4 units and try to get everything in alignment. Then again, I have always built cabinets using rabbets, dadoes, etc. Never pocket hole screw. All face frames have 2 dowels at every joint. I recently saw a kitchen I did 45 years ago. Still looks as good as new.

It’s nice to be able to do things properly.

In the cabinet business it is all about costs to the customer. We can do the same kitchen for $10k or $40k. The 10k one would be delivered to the home packed in cardboard boxes and an installer would typically install in two days. We can knock out three installations per week, or more.

The 40k one doing it custom with a face frame hiding all the case joint lines, or one unit multiple doors, will be custom in my shop and probably take around five weeks to build. During those five weeks there won’t be time for anything else.

A realtor won’t be able to distinguish the value difference.