Entry Level CNC
- Thread starter Fred J
- Start date
There are many used Shapeoko machines on the market today as existing owners upgrade to the new Shapeoko 5 model. Check the Shapeoko Facebook groups daily as well as the Carbide 3D community. I bought a Shapeoko Pro new in November 2023. The learning curve is steep and I am now just getting fully comfortable doing projects. The support from Carbide 3D, the manufacturer has been superb. I am using Carbide 3D's free software and so far it is meeting my needs as a newbie. Plus the company is constantly adding new features to the free version of the software as well as the more sophisticated pay version.
The machine itself performs well and I've had no issues other than operator error. Carbide 3D support helped me through my problems within hours of emailing support. My machine has a 33 x 33 working area which has worked for every project I have tried. The software provides for "tiling" so I can increase the length of work well beyond 33" should I need to. My machine is belt driven. I have the new wider belts (15 mm) which are sturdier than the older 9mm belts. Belts do stretch slightly over time with use. I check tension monthly and adjust if necessary. I plan to replace the belts annually (not expensive or time consuming) as preventative maintenance. The new Shapeoko 5 can do 48" wide sheet goods and does not use belts. If you are faithful in maintaining the machine I don't perceive belts are a problem and definitely save on the cost of entry.
The used market for Shapeoko machines appears to be robust. Sellers seem to move the machines within a few weeks at good prices. I decided to go smaller than 48" wide due to space issues in my shop, cost of entry, and uncertainty as to whether or not I would stick with it. Now that I have the skills to use it, and consider it to be an essential tool, I have no immediate desire to go bigger. I forgot to mention that Shapeoko 1 year warranty has a 30 days mistakes are on us guarantee. If you break anything in the machine, or any accessory purchased from Carbide 3D, the company will replace it. The company replaced two endmills and two hold down clamps for me.
The money investment only begins with the machine. Good quality endmills (cutting bits) begin at about $30 each and can go much higher depending on size and features. Breaking a $60 bit is painful but does provide one the incentive to be disciplined in work setup and to triple check the speeds and feeds programmed in the software for the job. Plus I said quality bits such as Whiteside, Amanda, and Cadence. There are many cheap imported bits sold on Amazon. When a cheap bit breaks 45 minutes into a one hour job, a valuable lesson is learned about the value in quality accessories.
Good dust collection is essential for these machines and may be an extra cost depending on the equipment you have. Most people seem to use a shop vac initially, and seem to gravitate to low noise durable vacs Such as Fein and Festool. Many use a small Oneida dust deputy, between the vac and CNC, to reduce the cost and need for frequently changing vacuum bags.
If you take the plunge, your biggest investment will be time. Budget a huge amount of time. You have to learn the machine, the software, work processes, types of endmills and their uses. The time spent diagnosing failures. I'm sure I have spent hundreds of hours watching YouTube videos, Carbide Create's large assortment of free training videos, and reading internet forums. All part of climbing the learning curve.
Like most newbies I wanted to make something quickly. I wasted time and material on a failed project far beyond my capability. I considered giving up and selling the machine. Instead I put my wood scrap pile to work. I spent weeks running small trials to learn the features and techniques of the software as well as the capabilities of the endmills. I experimented with different spindle rpm's and different feeds and speeds running different types of endmills. I learned how to design in the software, both my own creations and how to modify designs downloaded from Carbide 3D's free project plans. This immersion into fundamentals was grueling and consumed 100% of my woodworking time for four months. Going back to basics, and practicing fundamentals repeatedly, was critical. Not unlike most woodworking skill building.
I still have only scratched the surface in terms of using the machine and software capability. However today I can approach a project with confidence. I can visualize it end to end from the beginning and know up front what new skills I will need to develop in order to be successful on a new project. I often test a technique on a piece of scrap and if it doesn't turn out right I post a photo on a Facebook group page or internet form. Within 2-3 hours I have great responses from more experienced people. Often the approaches are very different and add greatly to my knowledge.
Another piece of advice. Keep a notebook and write down the details of every session. Machine setups, software files, endmills used, feeds and speeds. Plus the outcome. You'll never keep it all in your memory. You will find yourself referring to the notebook frequently.
Finally, I bought the CNC to support and enhance my woodworking hobby, not to make money. Many creative woodworkers with hobby level machines use them to make items for sale that return many times the investment in the machine. If this concept interests you, there are many YouTube videos, and Internet forums, telling how people are making money using home CNC's.
The machine itself performs well and I've had no issues other than operator error. Carbide 3D support helped me through my problems within hours of emailing support. My machine has a 33 x 33 working area which has worked for every project I have tried. The software provides for "tiling" so I can increase the length of work well beyond 33" should I need to. My machine is belt driven. I have the new wider belts (15 mm) which are sturdier than the older 9mm belts. Belts do stretch slightly over time with use. I check tension monthly and adjust if necessary. I plan to replace the belts annually (not expensive or time consuming) as preventative maintenance. The new Shapeoko 5 can do 48" wide sheet goods and does not use belts. If you are faithful in maintaining the machine I don't perceive belts are a problem and definitely save on the cost of entry.
The used market for Shapeoko machines appears to be robust. Sellers seem to move the machines within a few weeks at good prices. I decided to go smaller than 48" wide due to space issues in my shop, cost of entry, and uncertainty as to whether or not I would stick with it. Now that I have the skills to use it, and consider it to be an essential tool, I have no immediate desire to go bigger. I forgot to mention that Shapeoko 1 year warranty has a 30 days mistakes are on us guarantee. If you break anything in the machine, or any accessory purchased from Carbide 3D, the company will replace it. The company replaced two endmills and two hold down clamps for me.
The money investment only begins with the machine. Good quality endmills (cutting bits) begin at about $30 each and can go much higher depending on size and features. Breaking a $60 bit is painful but does provide one the incentive to be disciplined in work setup and to triple check the speeds and feeds programmed in the software for the job. Plus I said quality bits such as Whiteside, Amanda, and Cadence. There are many cheap imported bits sold on Amazon. When a cheap bit breaks 45 minutes into a one hour job, a valuable lesson is learned about the value in quality accessories.
Good dust collection is essential for these machines and may be an extra cost depending on the equipment you have. Most people seem to use a shop vac initially, and seem to gravitate to low noise durable vacs Such as Fein and Festool. Many use a small Oneida dust deputy, between the vac and CNC, to reduce the cost and need for frequently changing vacuum bags.
If you take the plunge, your biggest investment will be time. Budget a huge amount of time. You have to learn the machine, the software, work processes, types of endmills and their uses. The time spent diagnosing failures. I'm sure I have spent hundreds of hours watching YouTube videos, Carbide Create's large assortment of free training videos, and reading internet forums. All part of climbing the learning curve.
Like most newbies I wanted to make something quickly. I wasted time and material on a failed project far beyond my capability. I considered giving up and selling the machine. Instead I put my wood scrap pile to work. I spent weeks running small trials to learn the features and techniques of the software as well as the capabilities of the endmills. I experimented with different spindle rpm's and different feeds and speeds running different types of endmills. I learned how to design in the software, both my own creations and how to modify designs downloaded from Carbide 3D's free project plans. This immersion into fundamentals was grueling and consumed 100% of my woodworking time for four months. Going back to basics, and practicing fundamentals repeatedly, was critical. Not unlike most woodworking skill building.
I still have only scratched the surface in terms of using the machine and software capability. However today I can approach a project with confidence. I can visualize it end to end from the beginning and know up front what new skills I will need to develop in order to be successful on a new project. I often test a technique on a piece of scrap and if it doesn't turn out right I post a photo on a Facebook group page or internet form. Within 2-3 hours I have great responses from more experienced people. Often the approaches are very different and add greatly to my knowledge.
Another piece of advice. Keep a notebook and write down the details of every session. Machine setups, software files, endmills used, feeds and speeds. Plus the outcome. You'll never keep it all in your memory. You will find yourself referring to the notebook frequently.
Finally, I bought the CNC to support and enhance my woodworking hobby, not to make money. Many creative woodworkers with hobby level machines use them to make items for sale that return many times the investment in the machine. If this concept interests you, there are many YouTube videos, and Internet forums, telling how people are making money using home CNC's.
Lots of good advice here. The main point being plan to spend A LOT OF TIME LEARNING. Im not sure where it comes from but many people seem to think you just set them up and push a button. I knew before I got mine exactly what I was getting into having been using 3D cad for 30 plus years and having done CNC programming for many years as well. What I wasnt though, was a machine operator. I quickly learned what operators would scream about when I did just CNC programming for them. Also, you need to learn how to hold down your work pieces (sounds like you Chuck had issues here having clampls replaced) . If you need help, reach out.
I just want to place my wood on the CNC, press a button, and then collect my million$.
Is that too much to ask for?
Is that too much to ask for?
In the future you'll be able to think of a project while on vacation, the chip planted in your head will talk to an AI program that will send instructions to your CNC and the robot in your shop. When you arrive home the project will be fully executed, assembled, finished and ready for use.I just want to place my wood on the CNC, press a button, and then collect my million$.
Is that too much to ask for?
I have decided to sell my CNC. It is the smallest and most recent of the offerings (16 x 16) by Carbide3d.com.
ncwoodworker.net/forums/index.php?threads/shako-cnc-for-sale.78173/
ncwoodworker.net/forums/index.php?threads/shako-cnc-for-sale.78173/
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Let me know when and I'd be happy to show it you, or others... weekends tend to work best for me.
Hey Mark, sorry for the delayed response. Yes the Sience does come with the longboard. Here is a page that talks about it, but it was included in my purchase of the 30x30.
LongBoard CNC Controller | Sienci Labs
The LongBoard CNC controller is a powerful, three-axis CNC controller that acts as the brains and brawn of the LongMill. The four drivers are made to power any two-Y-axis CNC setup. Each LongBoard comes with: Fully assembled control board Detachable screw terminals for motor and I/O connections...
sienci.com
@dino drosas, please make a post in the For Sale/Wanted forum with your item details, location, price, etc.
Someone just posted a 5 x 5 Shopbot PRS Alpha for $6800 on the Shopbot forum. The machine is in Youngsville, NC (east of Durham). It was mostly used to cut RC airplane parts out of basswood with a 4 HP spindle. If I had the $$$ I would upgrade my Joe's 4x4 in a heartbeat.
2011 PRS Alpha 60-60 w6" Z axis, 4hp HSD Spindle
I had a low budget for a CNC mill so I built my own. The first few iterations were so-so but I learned a lot. I found my used Joe's 4x4 for about $900 used but that was a bit of a fluke. Owner was getting out of the hobby and wanted it gone.
If you decide to build a machine I highly recommend the Joe's CNC hybrid design. Not sure what your total outlay would be but it would likely be less than $2500.
2011 PRS Alpha 60-60 w6" Z axis, 4hp HSD Spindle
I had a low budget for a CNC mill so I built my own. The first few iterations were so-so but I learned a lot. I found my used Joe's 4x4 for about $900 used but that was a bit of a fluke. Owner was getting out of the hobby and wanted it gone.
If you decide to build a machine I highly recommend the Joe's CNC hybrid design. Not sure what your total outlay would be but it would likely be less than $2500.
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What an awesome response and share of information. I recently purchased a used Shapeoko pro myself and am in the midst of the learning curve. Working FT makes it even slower but worth the effort.
Cheers!
Just to give an idea what comes avail. from time to time.
I have a Onefinity Elite woodworker (32"x 32") and I love it. Came from a standard x35 woodworker. The Elite comes with closed loop steppers and a Masso controller. Theyre not the cheapest option but dont have any belts or pulleys to wear. All ball screws and linear rails. The lead time right now is pretty long but in my opinion its worh the wait.
I'll add another vote for Onefinity CNC. I started with one for home projects (stairway, mantle, bunch of other things), and, while I have since upgraded to an AvidCNC, it was a great machine.
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