edge gluing & removing squeeze out

[njohnston924]

Hi all,
This is my first post in NCWW and I consider myself to be an intermediate skill level, so I'm looking for some advice on my current project. I am making some raised panel cabinet fronts and the center panel will be about 27" x 25" red oak. I'm doing the panels in 11-12" sections so that I can plane them down and remove the glue squeeze out. But when I need to edge glue these sections together and the piece will not fit in the planer, whats the best way to remove glue so that it doesn't mess the stain up?

Do most just scrape the glue off when it's still rubbery and then sand the crap out of it? since red oak has somewhat deep pores, will this method remove the excess glue? Let me know if anyone has any other tips/tricks they use.

 

[CDPeters]

If you are pre-finishing (you mentioned stain) - I would use some painter's tape on the faces of the sub-panels right to the edge you are gluing. Peel the tape after the glue has set for an hour or so and most of the squeeze out will come with it.

For myself, I typically glue up frame & panels in one piece, then use an offset flat chisel to remove any squeeze out. Then a card scraper and finally fine sandpaper as needed.

I would not recommend putting a glued up panel through the planer because 2 of the 4 sides (either rails or stiles depending on orientation) the planer knives will be cutting across the grain and will likely tear out the trailing edge.

HTH, and welcome to NCWW!

 

[njohnston924]

the panel will not be prefinished. i plan to glue up the panel, make all the cuts for the panel/rails/stiles, stain/finish, then assemble. For my original question, I'm only referring to edge gluing the panel. Also, I wouldn't be running the whole assembly through the planer - only the sub-pieces of the panel section

 

[Jeff]

How thick are the panel sections?

Glue squeeze out is best removed in 1-2 stages about 20-30 minutes after glue up. Do not use a damp rag to wipe the joints and smear the glue around and into the pores of the wood; that's a sure way to mess up your finish from the outset. A card scraper is handy for cleaning up each glue joint after it dries. DAMHIKT.

https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/hot-to-handle-glue-squeeze-out/

 

[Wyatt Co.]

I'm a bit confused. Raised panel and edge glue?

 

[njohnston924]

currently they're about 13/16" thick and I'll plane them down to 3/4". They're about 12" wide right now in order to fit through my planer. Once I glue up these sections in order to make it 24" wide and scrape off the glue, is sanding going to be enough in order to remove any excess from the pores in oak?

 

[Wyatt Co.]

Ok, I gotcha.

I'd glue em' up and sand them down. BUT...

I'd never fab a 24" wide panel out of solid wood, especially oak. Too much movement going on there.

 

[Brogan]

I'm a bit confused. Raised panel and edge glue?

I understood it to mean he was glueing up the panels (using thin stock), not glueing the panels to the rails/stiles.

 

[Dave Richards]

I've had glue seep under tape. I use paraffin instead of masking tape to mask the joint. Dry clamp the joint, run a bar of paraffin along the joint to coat the wood. glue up and let the squeeze out sit until it's hard. It'll pop off with a card scraper and the paraffin will come with it. A wipe with mineral spirits will get any remaining paraffin and also make it possible to see if you missed covering the wood and have some glue still on the surface.

 

[Bas]

Glue squeeze out is best removed in 1-2 stages about 20-30 minutes after glue up. Do not use a damp rag to wipe the joints and smear the glue around and into the pores of the wood; that's a sure way to mess up your finish from the outset. DAMHIKT.

This.

Ten years ago I bought a small tin of Waxilit, and it's great for this purpose. Brush on a thin coat of Waxilit, glue, and let dry. Scrape off the dried glue and remove the remaining Waxilit with some mineral spirits. It's similar to the paraffin approach Dave mentioned, but I've found Waxilit a little easier to manage, especially around M&T joints.

 

[njohnston924]

these are the 2 sub-sections for the panel (they're both about 12" wide). these will be edge glued together to make it 24". This is unfinished red oak and once it's all glued up, then it will be stained/finished. My issue is, will scraping and sanding be enough to avoid the glue squeeze out from messing up the stain?

Thanks for the suggestions for the wax/paraffin. can this technique be used on unfinished wood or only after the finish?

 

[Dave Richards]

I use the paraffin on unfinished wood.

 

[KenOfCary]

I would get a good scraper - either traditional or one of the new carbide versions. It will get most of the glue off the surface and then sanding will be more of a touch up rather than the major part of the work.

 

[Jeff]

My issue is, will scraping and sanding be enough to avoid the glue squeeze out from messing up the stain?

The first 2 panel sub-parts look fine and how did you clean them up? Ran them through the planer, glue squeeze and all to reduce them from 13/16" to 3/4"? I think scraping and planing the 24" panel will be fine. Usually panels are glued up from pieces that have already been planed to thickness and the final work is the scraping and sanding or hand planing.

 

[JohnnyR]

I don't know what you're making but that's one big panel! Not only will there be a lot of movement but the frame won't be well supported if it's a typical 2-3" wide. I'd suggest a middle stile so you have 2 separate panels per door.

 

[TENdriver]

Nate, welcome to NCWW!

I carefully read your original post and understand your concerns about glue contamination of the oak pores.

My primary interest is 18th and early 19th century American furniture. Lots of raised panels, wide panel and table tops...but not so much in oak or ash types woods. Those woods are more secondary for that period. FWIW, I rely on cabinet scrapers and hand planes. In the maple, cherry, white pine and SYP I gravitate to, I usually don't deal with the open pores of your RO so I can't fully answer your specific question.

I can say that a solid 24" wide panel almost has to be finished before assembly or the unfinished edges are going to show during the dry months. That gives some wiggle room to deal with the contamination on just the panel before you have a completed piece.

It would be easier to cover this in a FTF discussion, but I'd have a few questions about your design. For now, I'll stick to the one issue John already mentioned above. A 24" wide raised panel is much wider than I'm used to. My first reaction to your door pretty much mirrors what JohnnyR said, and while I almost exclusively rely on 18th style full mortise and tenon construction in rasised panel doors, you're at what I'd personally feel is an extremely wide door. For me, unless there's a compelling reason not to, I'd be thinking along the same lines as JohnnyR mentioned with an added stile.

Sorry to hold back on an answer, but it's too early in the morning for me to tap much more out on my phone.

 

[Gofor]

I think your initial question about gluing has been well answered. As to your design:

If your design makes it necessary to go with one wide panel, you may want to consider making the stile grooves deeper than normal (assuming the grain will be running vertically). A panel that wide will have double the wood expansion/shrinkage of a more common 12" panel. If that panel assembly is fully supported on all sides (ex: the back side of a cabinet or chest that will still be in plain view) you probably will be okay. As a door, though, it will also be quite large and heavy, so you may want the rails and stiles thicker than normal to allow stronger fastening of the hinges. They will be getting a considerable amount of stress on them. May also want to consider pinning the tenons from at least the back side if you are going with the traditional mortise/tenon joinery to prevent them pulling apart.

Caveat: I have never made a cabinet door that wide so do not know for sure. That will require a lot of clearance for opening. I have made gates that wide, and have found that due to weight, a strong hinge and bracing (i.e. diagonals, etc) to prevent racking is a necessity.

Without any knowledge of your full project design, I am making a lot of assumptions, so please disregard if what I am saying is off target for what you are doing.

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