Dust Collector baffle question

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JimmyC

New User
Jimmy
I know, I know, I should know better than to ask a question about dust collection:BangHead:, but here it goes. This will be my set up so don't tell me that I need a cyclone, it's not in the stars at the moment.

I have a Grizzly 2hp DC, I will be using 6" HVAC pipe ( got it free :eusa_danc) and a Phil Thien seperator (also 6" inlet/outlet), but here's the catch, I want to blow it outside of my shop instead of using a bag/filter set up. The closest neighbor in the direction of the outlet will be about 1/4 mile away, but I still have people near me in the front so I am worried a little about the noise.

Here are my questions:

1) Is there a limitation on the length of the outlet pipe ? I would probably use 10' in length.

2) Is there any plans out there for baffles, and do they work well for knocking down the decibels, also would a baffle cause a back pressure problem ?

3) Has anyone here done anything like this with their set up, and how does it work ?

Thanks in advance.
 

CarvedTones

Board of Directors, Vice President
Andy
I thought "real" DCs used induction motors and were not very loud. I have a noise issue with my ShopVac and have one of those nearly worthless mufflers for it, but it is that universal motor that makes the racket.

EDIT - Out of curiosity, I looked it up. Sealed bearings TFEC induction motor. Have you tried turning it on and seeing how far you have to walk away before it can barely be heard?
 

woodrat

New User
Archie
Jimmy,

I think, from seeing your shop, that you could safely vent to towards
the creek without disturbing anyone. Or back towards the horse pasture.
As far as the shop is from the neighbors in front, I don't think there would
be a noise problem.

Are you thinking of putting the DC outside or just venting it?
 

Partman

Danny
Corporate Member
Jimmy, do you have heat or ac in the shop. If you vent outside all of your heat or ac goes with the dust, and where does the air come back into the shop. :eusa_thin


Danny
 

Bas

Recovering tool addict
Bas
Corporate Member
1) Is there a limitation on the length of the outlet pipe ? I would probably use 10' in length.
The longer the pipe, the more difficult it is for the motor & impeller to move the air (more pipe = more resistance to overcome). But 10ft of straight pipe is not going to have a significant impact (not compared to flex and corners).

2) Is there any plans out there for baffles, and do they work well for knocking down the decibels, also would a baffle cause a back pressure problem ?
I assume that by baffle, you mean a muffler, not a Phil Thien separator baffle. I wouldn't worry about noise too much. DCs are pretty quiet to begin with, it's not like you're running a jet engine. Bill Pentz has a muffler design on his web site I believe. A muffler will add some resistance, but if you build it right not very much. So I wouldn't worry about back pressure.

3) Has anyone here done anything like this with their set up, and how does it work ?
Not me, this is just my opinionated opinion :gar-Bi But I think venting outside is the way to go. With a good separator, you'll have very little dust going outside, most of it invisible. Certainly not enough to be noticeable. You lose some heat/ ac if your have a conditioned shop, but here in NC, the climate is pretty mild, so it's not as big a deal as in say, Arizona or Vermont.
 

FredP

Fred
Corporate Member
see partman's post. he's right on the money!:icon_thum noise shouldnt be an issue.... ummm.... why bother with a separator if your gonna blow it outside anyway?:dontknow: turn the pipe toward the ground and set a barrel under it. most of the chips will stay in the barrel [I think]. :rotflm:
 

ptt49er

Phillip
Corporate Member
If I was going to vent it outside, I certainly wouldn't use a seperator. That's one of the benefits to blowing it all outside. (Atleast in my eyes it is).
 
M

McRabbet

If you (or anyone) find you need a muffler on the exhaust side of your DC system, here are some pictures from the ClearVue Cyclones Photo Gallery. First is the overall view of the muffler:
main.php


Next is a view of the interior and ends between the two layers of pipe:

main.php


Here is a description of the construction by John Randle, the guy who designed and built it:
Muffler construction is 1/2" hardware cloth wrapped with fiberglass window screen then wrapped with about a three inch thick blanket of fiberglass insulation. All of this was then wrapped with 6 mil polyethelene and pulled into the outer pipe. The end nozzles are 8" flue pipe fastened to the hardware cloth core pipe. The end caps are 3/4" MDF. The core pipe is 8" and the outer jacket is 12". The muffler is 60" long.

You can view all of Randle's photo gallery at http://www.gallery2.clearvuecyclones.com/v/CV1800+and+CVMax/rand4723/

Hope this helps.
 

JimmyC

New User
Jimmy
Rob,

That is impressive, I might want to make one just because it looks cool.

Any sound muffle will help, and as far as blowing it straight outside that's not much of an option because I don't want to clean up the mess.

I think the muffler should work out well, unless anybody has better ideas, but I still have to figure out the air replacement thing.

Thank you everyone so far.

If you (or anyone) find you need a muffler on the exhaust side of your DC system, here are some pictures from the ClearVue Cyclones Photo Gallery. First is the overall view of the muffler:
main.php


Next is a view of the interior and ends between the two layers of pipe:

main.php


Here is a description of the construction by John Randle, the guy who designed and built it:

You can view all of Randle's photo gallery at http://www.gallery2.clearvuecyclones.com/v/CV1800+and+CVMax/rand4723/

Hope this helps.
 

Alan in Little Washington

Alan Schaffter
Corporate Member
[strike]I would discuss the exhaust pipe, shop temperature, and mufflers, (and baffle) but I fear, based on recent history, that the DC police will report me and thread police will edit or delete my post.[/strike]

See post later on in this thread.
 

JimmyC

New User
Jimmy
I would discuss the exhaust pipe, shop temperature, and mufflers, (and baffle) but I fear, based on recent history, that the DC police will report me and thread police will edit or delete my post.

Don't be that way Alan:gar-La;, I look forward to your input. My main concern at the moment is getting make up air if in vents outside.
 

Bigdog72

New User
Geoff
"My main concern at the moment is getting make up air if in vents outside."

Crack a window or a door on the side opposite the exhaust.
 

Tarhead

Mark
Corporate Member
Jimmy,
I would be concerned about any gas fired appliance (Hot water heater, HVAC heater, etc) sucking carbon monoxide back into your shop if you exhaust your DC to the outside. Just make sure you have adequate make-up air coming in. Also second Partman's concern about heating/cooling the outdoors. Other than that I wouldn't hesitate to blow it outside. Shortest run possible but with 6" pipe you would have to run it a loooooong way before resistance would be a concern. I would turn it on when I walked into the shop and not turn it off until I was finished and not worry about the muffler. Much less disturbing if you only turn it on and off once.

Mark (a slide rule guy in a Matlab world:eusa_danc)
 

JimmyC

New User
Jimmy
Mark (a slide rule guy in a Matlab world:eusa_danc)

Mark,
I love the mention of a slide rule, I too am a child of the slide rule and it changed over fast, my late brother who was two years younger than me was using a calculator in school.
 

CarvedTones

Board of Directors, Vice President
Andy
I was worried about my single hose A/C in the garage, as it pulls in outside air. It really hasn't been a problem. Your clothes dryer does it also. Not sure about the relative flow, though.
 

JimmyC

New User
Jimmy
I was worried about my single hose A/C in the garage, as it pulls in outside air. It really hasn't been a problem. Your clothes dryer does it also. Not sure about the relative flow, though.

I agree Andy, with my shop almost 1300 sq/ft with a 12' ceiling I don't think that I would have a problem unless I was planing or jointing alot of wood, and for that I was thinking about putting a "Y" on the outlet so that I could switch of to an inside filter during extreme weather days.

On another note I was wondering about putting my DC outside. Does anybody have any idea how these motors and blowers would hold up outside under an overhang ?

Thanks,
 

Alan in Little Washington

Alan Schaffter
Corporate Member
Ok, Jimmy, just for you-

It will be easy, because almost all the correct answers have been posted here already! I will restate and expand on some.

1. Oulet pipe. No length limit, the shorter the better, no bends if possible, no flex, 6" minimum.

2. No baffle is needed, you want minimal restrictions. You can discharge into a dumpster, or like some folks into a tilt trailer box, so you can drive it away and easily dispose of it.

3. Muffler, likely not needed, but can be added at any time if you decide you need one. Motor and blower make most noise, sound exiting discharge pipe of 10' or so will attenuate quickly across lawn, through trees, etc. The filter shown by Tom should work well (again doubt you need it), I have seen those on airplane engines that had no regular muffler and minimal exhaust manifold- they do work well but can be a bit heavy.

4. I know of a couple of WWers who direct vent and use (1) no catchment into a swale (2) large bin/small dumpster (3) a trailer. All are happy, but all live in various shades of rural. If your have ever made it all the way through Mr. DC's website, Bill actually says the best DC system is one that direct vents with no cyclone, no filter, etc. Least resistance and best flow possible.

5. Unless you have an undersized HVAC or run the DC for long stretches, loss of heat and AC are not as much of a consideration as you might think. You'll have the "refrigerator effect*"- your shop walls, floor, ceiling, contents and machinery all have "thermal mass" that help maintain a constant temp. *When you open an upright fridge door, the cold air all falls out, but after you close the door, the fridge mass, walls and contents, rapidly cool the new air.

6. If your shop has a gas, fuel oil, or wood fired heater or water heater, and depending on how well your shop is sealed, discharging to the outside can cause reverse flu flow and draw exhaust gases including highly dangerous CO back into the shop. I had this problem in my VA shop and got a severe headache once when I forgot to open the window(s). I know, I know, that explains everything. Otherwise, unless your shop is extremely tightly sealed, providing a source for takeup air is not much of an issue for efficient DC operation.

7. I put my entire DC and cyclone outside in my VA shop since it was too small and the DC too noisy- I prefer keeping it outside to save my ears and shop space. You will need to protect the motor/blower from rain and rust, but that can be done easily with a little open sided (for cooling) shed. Except for a new coat of gray paint, I left the TFEC motor and cyclone at my old house totally unprotected. After almost 3 years the non-exterior grade ply top on the cyclone had started to deteriorate a little and there was some very minor rust on the motor / blower (see pic of old installation) which is still working great with my new cyclone in my new DC installation.

That's my story and I am sticking to it.

P1260010.jpg
 

JimmyC

New User
Jimmy
Alan thanks for the input, I see that even back in VA you had a thing for Delta Grey paint:gar-La;.

I still might go with the muffler, but I think that I may try it without first. I'm not rural enough to blow it to the ground but I may try to think of some sort of trailer set up. The heat loss idea seems to work out for me and I'm not too worried about a reverse of flue flow, yet. I guess the DC on the outside might work out well, except for maybe the sound.

once again thanks for the input.
 

scsmith42

New User
Scott Smith
Jimmy, there is a lot of great advice on this string; Alan's post in particular stands out.

Having planed a lot of wood, I've literally generated several dump truck loads of shavings, and this probably influences my thinking...

I would explore building a small "lean-to" against the outer wall of your shop, with a screened window between the lean-to and the shop. Make the lean-to long and wide enough to house your DC blower on one end, and to be able to back a small trailer that has sides all the way around (such as a garden trailer) and park it from the other end. Totally enclose and insulate the lean-to with doors on one end. Make it reasonably tall - say 8' or so at the ceiling.

Putting the DC in the lean-to should dampen all of the noise that you need to dampen. Skip the filters -probably not needed. Direct vent the outlet pipe to dump straight down into the trailer, with a screen between the pipe and the top of the trailer.

When you're running the DC, open the window between the shop and the lean-to. This allows the air to return.

I'm building a "large scale" version of this concept into my wood processing building, albeit with a larger blower and dump truck...

It's quiet, effective, no loss of conditioned air, and makes it easy to dispose of the shavings.

dust_collection_trailer.JPG
 
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