Dust Collection Questions

[Rwe2156]

OK guys I remodeled my shop and "was" planning on using my old dust collector (1 1/2hp/1100cfm) but after researching it I am more confused than ever and have concluded my unit is not big enough.

Before I had 4" piping to all my machines and it worked fine, but everything was bunched together the longest run was ~12 feet.

Now based on what I read, 4" ducts are severely restrictive and I need 6" ducts.

I read Bill Pentz's treatise and came away with a couple impressions: 1) he is talking about dust collection where the goal is not a single piece of dust escapes, and 2) you need at least a 5 HP 4000cfm unit to achieve the particle speed and min 2500 cfms he's talking about. 3) 4" pipe just won't work he suggests 6 as a minimum, 7-8 is better.

Now The total pipe length in my shop will be 75 feet the longest run is 26 to ras. I have an 8" jointer, cabinet saw, a 16" drum sander and a 20" planer all close together and no more than 15' from the dc.

As of now I have put a system on hold and plan to use my collector machine-side. I did get a dust deputy.

Based on my machines and the drops and distances, I'm thinking I need 6" pipe and a bigger dc.

Just looking for your thoughts and maybe your experiences with whatever set up/dc unit you use.

Does anyone have any experience with paying for dc design with either Oneida or PennState?


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[kooshball]

OK guys I remodeled my shop and "was" planning on using my old dust collector (1 1/2hp/1100cfm) but after researching it I am more confused than ever and have concluded my unit is not big enough.

Before I had 4" piping to all my machines and it worked fine, but everything was bunched together the longest run was ~12 feet.

Now based on what I read, 4" ducts are severely restrictive and I need 6" ducts.

I read Bill Pentz's treatise and came away with a couple impressions: 1) he is talking about dust collection where the goal is not a single piece of dust escapes, and 2) you need at least a 5 HP 4000cfm unit to achieve the particle speed and min 2500 cfms he's talking about. 3) 4" pipe just won't work he suggests 6 as a minimum, 7-8 is better.

Now The total pipe length in my shop will be 75 feet the longest run is 26 to ras. I have an 8" jointer, cabinet saw, a 16" drum sander and a 20" planer all close together and no more than 15' from the dc.

As of now I have put a system on hold and plan to use my collector machine-side. I did get a dust deputy.

Based on my machines and the drops and distances, I'm thinking I need 6" pipe and a bigger dc.

Just looking for your thoughts and maybe your experiences with whatever set up/dc unit you use.

Does anyone have any experience with paying for dc design with either Oneida or PennState?


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no direct experience with any of the systems you mentioned just an observation and opinion....I have a cheap HF dust collector and when I went from 4" to 5" the difference was significant on cfm and on dust captured. Then I upgraded the filter and had another huge improvement....point being size does matter. I would set a budget and get the biggest system with the most cfm that you can afford. When my current setup fails I will go big...

 

[MarkE]

Peruse this thread when you have some time. Lot's of good information there. Alan in Little Washington makes some very good points in post #34.

 

[MarkE]

I have an Oneida Super Dust Gorilla with a 3 hp motor. I have a few feet of 8" pipe which goes down to 6" at the first branch. I run 6" pipe from there to most of my machines.

Unfortunately, most of my machines have 4" (or smaller) dust ports that cannot be easily opened up to 6". Overall, this system works pretty well. Some dust and debris still escapes, but I don't think a more powerful DC would make much of a difference in those areas. It's very difficult to capture all of the dust coming off of a blade spinning at 3600 rpm, or a router bit spinning at 20,000 rpm., especially since dust collection hasn't been a high priority for most machine manufacturers.

 

[drw]

DrBob, I don't have any experience with a system as large as the one you need; my shop is small so I simply connect units as needed to my dust collector. That said, this past winter I purchased the Oneida Mini Gorilla. I have been very impressed with the unit in terms of both the quality of the unit's construction and its efficiency in collecting dust. If I am every blessed with a larger shop, I would very seriously look at the larger Oneida systems.

 

[Rwe2156]

I read thru that thread and I guess the gist is I have 2 choices: a "chip" collecting system that gets most of the dust, or a true "medical-rated" system that will get "a lot more" dust or keep me from breathing ANY dust. For me that's a no brainer. I'll wear a dust mask.

The maini reason for me to have a dc is to reduce clean up, plain and simple. When I work with a fine particle producing machine like a drum sander, I'll wear a $35 dust mask instead of having an expensive set up like Pentz's requires.

I have the ability to exhaust to outside so if I put in a duct system I can use a bag system and save some money.

I've decided on 4" pipe, and I can locate my dc within a 12' run of everything but my table saw.

I agree with some of the comments re Pentz's I respect his knowledge but I'm not a full time woodworking shop exposed to dust 8 hours a day.

BTW I got quotes from an industrial pipe supplier on 6" thin wall PVC. It was 2.26/ft. Sanitary T $31. Sweep 90's and others $8-10.
Plastic isn't that cheap anymore.


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[Warren]

I haven't seen a hobby system that will collect 100% chips and dust. Use the mask. For plastic pipe check out Agri-Supply. I bought 100 ft. of 6 inch drain pipe for about $12-15 per 10 ft. length (no coupling except for wye, elbows, etc. One end accepts the end of the next 6" pipe. Price may be more now. I have used it a few years with "Clearvue cyclone" and am very satisfied.

 

[Rwe2156]

I haven't seen a hobby system that will collect 100% chips and dust. Use the mask. For plastic pipe check out Agri-Supply. I bought 100 ft. of 6 inch drain pipe for about $12-15 per 10 ft. length (no coupling except for wye, elbows, etc. One end accepts the end of the next 6" pipe. Price may be more now. I have used it a few years with "Clearvue cyclone" and am very satisfied.

Just checked.
$2.49/ft for 6" thin wall at the aAgriSupply nearest me......must have been a while ago.

 

[llucas]

DrBob

Yep the price of 6 inch 2729 S and D jumps around...I bought some 3 months ago at $1.90 a foot (minimum of 100 ft.) so keep watching as the price may drop. But the wyes and 45's and 6 to 4 reducers will run up the price...
I talked with the plumbing manager at Lowes and he special ordered a scad of fittings at a significant savings (25-30% discount)...so it doesn't hurt to ask. Just remember that Sch. 40 pvc fitting WILL NOT fit SD 2729...

FWIW, I just went through the same thought process you are dealing with now. I am settling into my shop for the long haul...don't plan to move again...so with that in mind, I looked at purchasing a DC system the same way I decided which table saw and jointer to get...make it the last one I would ever need/want. I took out a bunch of 4" and changed to 6" and upgraded to a much larger system...and I get excellent dust and chip collection ( I KNOW, NO PICS, DIDN"T HAPPEN...pics to follow).
The most surprising part was how much the ductwork (90% #2729 pvc) ended up costing...right at 30% of the total cost. I saved some $ by omitting the filter and exhausting the dust outside. And as other have reported I can tell little detriment to the conditioned air inside. So if you have of place to send the dust outside, seriously consider saving that way.
Good luck with your decision.

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

BTW I got quotes from an industrial pipe supplier on 6" thin wall PVC. It was 2.26/ft. Sanitary T $31. Sweep 90's and others $8-10.
Plastic isn't that cheap anymore.


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I hope you were just checking prices. Never use plumbing Sanitary Ts, if such a thing is exist in ASTM 2729, or any kind of "T." T's have too tight of radius. Note, fittings for PVC S&D ASTM 2729 and the thicker wall SDR 35 pipe (BUT NOT Sched 40) may be be marked with any or all of the following ASTMs- D2729, D3034, D3035, all of which have the same ID. You can even find fittings for 2729 pipe made from styrene plastic (marked ASTM D2852) - they will work fine also.

Use a 45° wye on the main and run your drop at 45° down to the machine/blast gate, or connect a 45° elbow to the wye if you want the branch to be perpendicular to the main.

The price seems high. I just a quick Google search and came up with this 6" x 6" x 6" 45 wye for $18.78 and this one on Amazon for $17.76. But, if you are not careful you can pay $47 at Graingers and other places for the same fitting!!!!!