Dust collection idea... is this just plain stupid?

dwminnich

New User
Dave
In my old shop I had a pre-separator and exhausted the fines outside. Well, in the new shop (garage) exhausting outside is not possible, since the house is brick and there are no convenient windows to where the DC must live. I've been assuming I had to go back to some kind of filter system, but a wild idea just occurred to me...

Do you think I could safely exhaust the fines into the attic space? I never noticed any accumulation of dust outside, but then rain and wind would have helped to clear it. The attic is vented, so back-pressure wouldn't be an issue. The only concern I can come up with is the accumulation of dust in an already dusty space. Thoughts?

--dave
 

ehpoole

Administrator
Ethan
You would never want to discharge fines into an attic (or any other essentially “enclosed” and uncontrolled space — the waste bin is a controlled space of limited volume).

It is important to understand that not only are fines highly flammable (any flammable substance with a large surface area relative to its volume is high risk as the greater the surface area the faster it will burn) but are also potentially very explosive if they get airborne and encounter any sort of spark or flame (including self ignition from dust-to-dust static discharge) — injecting a lot of fines over time into a room/attic is a bit like discharging a large mist of gasoline into that same space (only gasoline at least evaporates if it does not ignite), you may get away with doing such many times, but you are seriously rolling the dice each time. While you may think in terms of there only being a small amount of fines airborne at any given moment, over time the whole area around the attic will become coated in those highly flammable fines, which can lead to fast spreading “ordinary” fires at best, but with every surface getting coated in such fines over time anything that disturbs the space such as strong vibrations shaking it down (a large truck driving by, a minor earthquake, etc.) or a severe storm with strong wind gusts can potentially stir up a large quantity of fines where they can then remain airborne for many hours before resettling and if any ignition sources are encountered and the ratio of dust to oxygen is favorable then a serious explosion hazard exists.

In workplace accidents such events involving fine dust are often precipitated simply from an event knocking or shaking fines that had accumulated on overhead beams and rafters allowing accumulated fines to suddenly rain down upon the space (such as may happen in an attic). Oftentimes in such accidents the initial explosion event is usually very minor, but the concussive force then dislodges and drives airborne all the rest of the fines leading to a secondary and vastly more devastating explosion a fraction of a second later that is ignited by the remnants of the first explosion.

So, no, it’s definitely not something that you would want to consider doing. Either find a way to duct them outside and well clear of the building or install an appropriate bag or cartridge filter on the exhaust side to capture the fines and return the air to your shop. If this seems a bit dramatic it is only to emphasize the dangers associated with fine dust as to most of us dust seems like little more than an objectionable nuisance rather than a potentially devastating hazard to home and health, but even something as seemingly mundane as dust can be dangerous when it accumulates within an uncontrolled space over time. Like many risks, it will not bite one every time and one may get away with such, possibly even for their lifetime if fortunate, but every time is a roll of the dice and you never get to know ahead of time when your magic number will come up until it’s too late! As such it simply is not worth the risk.
 

dwminnich

New User
Dave
I wouldn't put any organic materials in the attic space for a host of reasons. The two that come to mind first are: 1) fines could be highly combustible and 2) harborage for a variety of pests.

Yep, if I thought there would be any significant accumulation of material over time this would be a non-starter for those reasons. But that's why I'm on the fence...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

dwminnich

New User
Dave
Could you continue the exhaust all the way through the attic space to the vents on the side of the house and vent outside that way?

Maybe. That's a good thought. One of the additional complications of this space is that there are walkways on each side of the garage, and of course, cars parked in front of it, so there's no good place for an exterior exhaust at ~ground level. It might work well to do it above head level, though. Hmm...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

JimD

Jim
Senior User
I've started buying stuff but not started setting up my DC yet. I want to discharge outside but maybe not all the time. I used a space heater some this winter and may put in a small window unit for the hottest part of the summer. So I might filter sometimes. But I think I will initially set mine up discharging outside. Rather than cut a hole in the brick, I am thinking of running a 6 inch Duct about 10 feet to a door way and shoot it out the upper corner. Door will have to be open, of course. That should also set up a bit of a breeze with air coming in the garage door at the other end of the shop. Some of the feasibility of this is getting the discharge port of the blower at the right height so the duct can run under a high shelf along this wall - pretty much out of the way.
 

nn4jw

New User
Jim
I've started buying stuff but not started setting up my DC yet. I want to discharge outside but maybe not all the time. I used a space heater some this winter and may put in a small window unit for the hottest part of the summer. So I might filter sometimes. But I think I will initially set mine up discharging outside. Rather than cut a hole in the brick, I am thinking of running a 6 inch Duct about 10 feet to a door way and shoot it out the upper corner. Door will have to be open, of course. That should also set up a bit of a breeze with air coming in the garage door at the other end of the shop. Some of the feasibility of this is getting the discharge port of the blower at the right height so the duct can run under a high shelf along this wall - pretty much out of the way.

Isn't the nice breeze just going to bring the fine dust right back into your space with that door open?
 

JimD

Jim
Senior User
No, the breeze set up from the DC exhaust will go in the opposite direction. It will blow out bringing air in the opposite door. But if there is a stronger breeze the other way, that could happen. It isn't very windy where I am although the wind direction that could be an issue would be coming in off the lake, in that direction there is very little to block any wind. It will only cost me some snap lock pipe to try this so I am pretty sure I will. I can probably also use the snap lock in another location if it doesn't work out.

I have the tools to make a hole in the brick and the side of the house this would be on is the best side for me to make a hole. If the wind is blowing hard enough for my doorway idea to have a problem, it seems like it would also affect the operability of an oversized dryer vent, however. It could blow the flap partically closed - but that would not put dust back into the shop. It would just act like a partially plugged filter reducing the DC suction.

There is another way to go with the exhaust but it will be a bit of a challenge. If I can get the pipe into the eaves I can exhaust out a normal eave vent. That would be good if there is a path. I am worried I could have to get into the wall of the finished space above the shop and go through the double 2x4 top plate.
 

Gotcha6

Dennis
Staff member
Corporate Member
If you have any inclination to condition your shop area air, you'll also be exahusting all that heated or cooled air. I'm for filtering and leaving it inside. During certain weather conditions you'll be bringing in really damp or cold air, neither of which I think you would want.
 

JimD

Jim
Senior User
Dennis,

I agree although in my nearly 20 years now in SC, I have found the time periods when I need to heat or cool the shop to be limited. I did not put any provision for heat or AC in it when it was built. This winter I needed to do some things in the shop when it was uncomfortably cold. So I took a little space heater out and that made it OK. The shop garage is well insulated and small so even a little conditioned air makes a significant difference. I will probably add a small, 5,000 btu, window unit for the hottest part of the summer. When using either of these, I agree I will want to filter, not blow the now conditioned air outside. I think these times will be maybe 3 months of the year. I will be able to reconfigure the DC exhaust to go through a filter during these months. If I can exhaust outside most of the time, it will help to limit wear and tear on the filter and also give me better suction at the tools. I also like the outside air going through the shop when possible. It may have more particulates than the shop air but still feels nice. Having the back door open also gives me a nice view of the lake.

Jim
 

Charlie

Charlie
Corporate Member
I have been exhausting everything outside for 28 years and wouldn't have it any other way.
No filters, no handling of waste, etc.
I recently milled 320 SF of pine for the NCWW Urn Project and never had to touch a bit of shavings.
Colder climates could be a problem, but not here in this area.
 

Gotcha6

Dennis
Staff member
Corporate Member
Dennis,

Having the back door open also gives me a nice view of the lake.

Jim
I think if I had a shop with a lake view I wouldn't get much done in the shop, but I'd hafta learn to fish.......;)
 

Sofkayak

New User
Peter
In my old shop I had a pre-separator and exhausted the fines outside. Well, in the new shop (garage) exhausting outside is not possible, since the house is brick and there are no convenient windows to where the DC must live. I've been assuming I had to go back to some kind of filter system, but a wild idea just occurred to me...

Do you think I could safely exhaust the fines into the attic space? I never noticed any accumulation of dust outside, but then rain and wind would have helped to clear it. The attic is vented, so back-pressure wouldn't be an issue. The only concern I can come up with is the accumulation of dust in an already dusty space. Thoughts?

--dave
Hey Dave,
Not a stupid idea. With proper
In my old shop I had a pre-separator and exhausted the fines outside. Well, in the new shop (garage) exhausting outside is not possible, since the house is brick and there are no convenient windows to where the DC must live. I've been assuming I had to go back to some kind of filter system, but a wild idea just occurred to me...

Do you think I could safely exhaust the fines into the attic space? I never noticed any accumulation of dust outside, but then rain and wind would have helped to clear it. The attic is vented, so back-pressure wouldn't be an issue. The only concern I can come up with is the accumulation of dust in an already dusty space. Thoughts?

--dave
Hey Dave,
I think it’s an excellent idea, because that’s similar to what I did in my last shop.

I connected my sawdust producing machines to my Thein baffle trash can separator then ran 4” piping through the ceiling to my dust collector in the attic.

I would regularly check the lower clear bag of the dust collector. For every trash can of chips I may have accumulated 1/2” of dust in the bag. My shop was quieter and I never heard any complaints of noise in the house.

I thought it was a great set up. Peter
 

old-delta

Wes
Senior User
Just my 2cents here. I would avoid getting the fines in any confined or partially confined space. If anyone remember the West Pharmaceutical explosion in Clayton a few years, that was from fines above a drop ceiling in an enclosed area. Small static spark and it took down a 70,000 sf structure. If I didnt have another option. I would invest in renting a core cutter for concrete and neatly cut the brick. That way you can locate the vent exactly where you want it. The cost is minimal to do it right the first time. Especially if you use the space for woodworking often. Wouldn't be any more different than installing a dryer vent. I believe there are also concrete companies that would cut the brick for you.
 

JimD

Jim
Senior User
It isn't that hard to make the necessary hole in the brick veneer. I did it for my dryer vent shortly after buying my house in 2013 and I am confident I can do it for the DC if that end up being the way I go. Instead of trying to drill a 3 inch or 6 inch hole, I just use my HF hammer drill to drill a series of 1/2 inch holes to nibble away the brick and mortar. The resulting hole is not very pretty but the flange of the vent cover hides it. I will shoot some expanding foam in there too if I do it (from the inside before connecting the DC. The brick is attached to the house sheathing with straps and can span a 6 inch hole. It is also possible to cover over the hole later but that is more difficult. You have to cut out mortar and need some color matching bricks and mortar.
 

Premier Sponsor

Our Sponsors

Top