Drawer design opinions, please.

[Dorm]

I'm building a dresser for my wife and me, and would appreciate some feedback on drawer design ... mainly on the material choice and thickness for the drawer sides. The dresser is a 10 drawer dresser roughly 62"w x 52" tall. The 3 bottom drawer rows are 8" height, 4th row up is 5" height and top is ~3". The drawers are roughly 26"length x 18"depth. The drawer design is:

• Poplar material for the sides
• 3/4" thick ... I'd love to go 1/2" thk for the sides, but don't have a resaw or source for material of that thickness. So for the 8" drawers, that's a lot of planing and wood waste to get the material down to 1/2" thickness
• Box joint design for the corners
• Oak strips were glued and stapled for the drawers to ride/slide on
• 3/8" cabinet grade ply into rabbeted slots for the bottoms, and a bottom glued/screwed strongback for the 8" drawers
• Inset Oak panels for the drawer fronts

Poplar is sooo easy to machine and work with, so that was my first choice for drawer material. The outer frame and top are oak and ash, but for the drawer frames is there a better material? On the thickness - again I don't have a resaw and would rather go with thicker material than stand behind the planer all day. Once completed, the outer surfaces will be painted, and I thought to spray sanding sealer or u-thane for the inner drawer surfaces.

Thanks for your feedback!

Ciao ... Dorm

 

[CDPeters]

Hi Dorm,

Just a couple of quick comments...

>> I would probably opt for 1/2" poplar or soft maple for the drawer sides & backs, but understand your issues wrt resaw/planing
>> If you are going to paint the piece, you will need to use a pore filler on the oak as the pores will telegraph through the paint and make it difficult to achieve a smooth finish
>> Not sure what you mean by "drawer frames" in the last paragraph. If you mean a face frame, and it will be painted, I would choose maple as it will finish very smooth and will resist the inevitable dings and dents. Poplar would be a good choice too, if it will be painted.

HTH,
Chris

 

[ehpoole]

A few minor thoughts.

Poplar is a wonderful choice for drawer sides, backs, and bottoms (if you want solid wood rather than plywood) as it is strong, inexpensive, very easy to work, and largely unseen (so no need for exotic or figured wood).

Using 3/4" thick sides is great for large drawers or drawers that may be heavily loaded when sliders are used as they allow for beefier screws to be used to secure the sliders to the drawer sides. However, for your application where you will not be using heavy duty sliders I would agree that 1/2" would be desirable as it gains you an extra 1/2" of usable width in each drawer. Poplar machines so easily and beautifully that it really is not that big a deal to shave 3/4" Poplar down to 1/2" as that is just a few passes through even a lunchbox planer (with depth per pass depending upon board width/drawer depth).

There is certainly nothing wrong with using 3/8" plywood for drawer bottoms, but it is an unusually heavy choice for a typical drawer as for most drawers 3/16" to 1/4" plywood slid into a groove routed into all four sides of the drawer is heavy enough to support considerable loads and does help reduce the weight of the drawer by a reasonable bit. However, if you can not create a slot on all four sides using either a router or tablesaw then the 3/8 plywood is a decent choice, but will you have enough room to adequately screw it from below or may you need some side screws/nails as well (it will depend upon the depth of your rabbets)? Do keep in mind, however, that with the plywood rigidly attached by glue it will not move the same as the sides when subjected to wide humidity swings if that is of any concern. Nailing or screwing, minus the glue, can allow for some limited movement of the sides independent of the plywood if it must be able to adapt to dramatic humidity changes throughout the seasons. This is of greater concern the larger the drawers are as it is largely a moot point when drawers are sufficiently small that the dimensional changes are also sufficiently small with humidity changes.

Box joints do make for very strong construction, really rivaled only by properly implemented dovetails, but they will require very precision milling to get right and that level of required detail can be off-putting to some (particularly those with less experience and/or patience) -- I mention this only as a warning if it is a new joint for you as there is nothing to fear if you are comfortable with the required precision or enjoy experimenting, just test your jig with some test drawers of identical depth before you start in the real drawers to ensure everything is dialed in correctly beforehand. The required accuracy and precision increases the deeper your drawer and the finer the finger joints (the more fingers the greater the required accuracy as each finger multiplies any error in your setup). If you are new to box joints then you may wish to look into Alan's iBox jig available from a number of woodworker supply outfits (I believe it is an Incra product), both brick and mortar and online and should make setup much simpler for such joints.

 

[JackLeg]

I know of no one who has more "hands on" experience in building drawers of all types than the infamous skymaster! Check him out for good counsel and advice!

 

[TENdriver]

Dorm, We used to have a hardwood supplier up here that had tons of S4S 1/2" Poplar for drawer stock. It was relatively inexpensive as well.

Only issue was there wasn't much quarter sawn stock in the pile so you'd get stuck with flat sawn. Maybe a cabinet shop or supplier handles it in your area. Honestly, that might be a material you could get online or mail order.

Another option could be resawn 2 x 12 SYP KD construction lumber. You'd be able to get quarter sawn material then. I think Scott Smith has mentioned something about the mills cooking that stock to set the sap. That looks to be what we're getting up here.

 

[golfdad]

I wouldbe great if you could pass on that information on the supplier Ten

 

[TENdriver]

Dirk, We used to have a hardwood supplier up here that handled 1/2" S4S poplar. They closed down that location back in April 2016 and now only sell out of the Charlottesville VA area. We no longer have any large well run suppliers up here. I have to drive South a couple hours.

I don't see the drawer stock on the recent price list for that dealer's current location. Maybe it was a special product they kept for someone up here. Too bad though, it really was handy if you didn't absolutely have to have quarter sawn stock.

Northland Forest Products in Troy VA

A furniture or cabinet shop might know a supplier for their drawer stock.



I personally don't do a ton of drawer building so ripping down, resawing and miling up the SYP into useable stock is doable for me.

I generally do that as required but it would be relatively easy for someone with resaw and a lunchbox planer to generate a batch for a chest of drawers. Just make sure to run more than you think you'll need and well before you build the drawers. I've had really good luck with KD construction lumber for that use but it is only construction lumber and some pieces have hidden stresses in them.



I originally planned on using some older growth stock as secondary wood with curly maple primary wood in 18th century style pieces, but now that stuff will probably end up being used as primary wood as well

 

[Dorm]

Thanks to all for your comments. It sounds like I'm on a good path for the drawer material choice. There are a few local suppliers in the Raleigh area where I can get RS 4/4 poplar ... again, I guess I'm impatient and just don't like standing behind the planer all day.

• Ten ... TE Johnson is a good local supplier to me for SYP. I considered using this, but opted for poplar instead because I didn't want the sap issues.

• Poole ... thanks for the suggestions on drawer bottom thickness and perhaps 1/4" is adequate, especially given I install the strongback as mentioned on the deeper drawers.

Also to all, thanks for the fair warning on how tedious box joints can be. Knowing this in advance helps to make sure I get my mind, the setup and sharp chisels right before proceeding so as to lesson the pain. :thumbs_up

 

[Skymaster]

Dorm; Is this piece a classic period piece or a dresser that is going to be a normal everyday functionl unit? If so then, here is what i build for my clients: drawer boxes are 1/2 in pre finished maple ply, bottoms 1/2 maple ply, t&g joint at corners, dadoed bottoms, box length depends on flush or surface mount drawer fronts

 

[Gofor]

For the drawer interiors, I use either sanding sealer (shellac) or the Deft rattle can clear lacquer. Both dry quickly and relatively odor free. Polyurethane will have quite a bit of odor for a long time. I have not tried any of the water-based (acrylic) coatings on drawers, but that may also work with less odor problems. I used minwax polycrylic brush on over oil based stain for the interior (and exterior) of a kitchen island roll-around unit I built, and noticed very little odor, so I think it would work well straight for drawer as well.

Go

 

[TENdriver]

Dorm, Jeff at the "Hardwood Store" said they'd S2S poplar to a finished 1/2" or 5/8" or whatever for $.40 a board foot. Looks like the final cost is around $2.60ish a board foot.

They also sell prefinished BB drawer stock and read made drawer kits.

Maybe that could work if they're near by and do good work.

 

[golfdad]

They are in Graham,Nc and they do very good work.

 

[Berta]

Dorm, Jeff at the "Hardwood Store" said they'd S2S poplar to a finished 1/2" or 5/8" or whatever for $.40 a board foot. Looks like the final cost is around $2.60ish a board foot.

They also sell prefinished BB drawer stock and read made drawer kits.

Maybe that could work if they're near by and do good work.

Something like that is a great time saver.

 

[Dorm]

Thanks for the tip on the Hardwood Store for material.

 

[TENdriver]

I saw that they were an advertiser and mistakenly thought they were in Raleigh and closer to Dorm. They seemed pretty nice on the phone.

Wish they were up here!

 

[JimD]

It may not be the look you want but I usually use nominally 1/2 inch baltic birch plywood for drawers and typically use machine cut dovetails on all 4 corners. But my jig does dovetails on 7/8 increments of drawer width. I adjust plans to make this work but you can get template guides that will do them on 1 inch increments (Grizzly at least used to have a good selection). I use a very inexpensive HF dovetail jig with a Grizzly template guide.

Really wide (like 8 inches or more) in the kitchen would get a 1/2 bb plywood bottom but drawers for clothes should be fine with 5mm luan.

 

[jlimey]

The Hardwood Store is in Gibsonville, not Graham.

 

[chesterboyd]

Poplar is a good choice but I think you would be much happier with 1/2 inch even though it takes a little more time. The less weight and somewhat more room would be easier to handle---particularly for kids.
Box joints are good but nothing beats the tried and true dovetail as far as i'm concerned.And they are easy to cut with a dovetail jig. I use shellac inside drawers but I don't think it is any better than other finises for the purpose.
Good luck
Chester boyd

 

[Joe Scharle]

Don't be afraid to use 3/4 for the sides. Not my first choice, but if you round the top edge, it will look thinner. As for drawer bottoms; I don't use any glue, but run the bottoms under a short back and secure with 2-3 screws into the back. Easily replaced/repaired.

Box joints are very easy to make with a reliable jig. Either Alan's jig or one you build yourself. Over the years, I've made at least a dozen one-time, throwaway box joint jigs, but after awhile I began to make some keepers. Here are the ones I've kept. All came from various mags and can also be found on-line.

The oldest From the 80s) is the Lynn jig, named after it's inventor. I've cut box joints the thickness of the saw blade with this, up to 1.5 inches.

​

This one is from either Shopnotes or Woodsmith, and I've found it to be very good for 1/4" to 3/4" box joints on the tablesaw. Some people could never get it to work. So be warned, it takes a degree of skill to build. Very precise...not forgiving.

​

And my latest favorite. Built from scrap in 1-2 hours. The mags plan wants you to use the router table or tablesaw fence as the alignment guide. What nonsense! You'll never find that exact spot again, so I added a runner to the bottom to fit in my router table front slot. You can shift the fence for fine tuning depending upon the humidity. I made 2 front blocks but only keep the 3/8" assembled, as that's what I use the most.
Oh, and the stop is to let let me know when to back up!
And yes, I also made a front block to cut dovetails. Then I only have the pins to cut by hand. Don't tell anyone...

Your quickest success in woodworking comes from asking a lot of questions, then just doing it!
Have fun, be safe

​