Drawer construction ?

[HardRock]

attaching sides to front?

1. Kitchen and bath cabinet drawers, assuming that there will be a double front, in that the outside front of the drawer is larger than the drawer opening in the cabinet and that this front is attached to the hidden front that dimensionally matches the sides in height............

What is the perfered method for attaching the hidden front to the sides? I've narrowed it down to three, either drawer lock miter, 45 degree lock miter and of course dovetails.

The lock miters seem to be an easy "pull out proof" construction method, but is there an advantage to the drawer lock miter VS the 45 degree lock miter? I'm leaning towards the dovetail jig deal anyway, but the mitered joint is certainly less intimidating.

Construction material will be red oak and poplar solid wood.

 

[D L Ames]

Gil, to rank order the joints by strength, IMHO I would say that the strongest would be the DTs followed by the drawer lock method and lastly the 45° lock miter.

D L

 

[Ray Martin]

Gil,

Another benefit to the dovetail approach is appearance. You see dovetail joinery on high end stuff. It makes the whole job look better / more professional / more expensive.

... of course, you should consider whether these joints will be seen before you vote for a style based on looks.

Ray

 

[Joe Scharle]

The 45 deg lock miter is a bear to setup for me. If I'm making a lot of drawers, I like DT on the front and drawer lock on the rear. The reason being is that once I've set the DT jig for a 3/8 offset blind DT(front), I don't need to reset it for flush(rear). I can just carry the sides and back to the RT and cut away.
Whatever you choose, play safe.
Joe

 

[Howard Acheson]

IMO, it depends on what type of item you are building. I have some shop drawers that are over 30 years old that were assembled from plywood with PVA adhesive, butt joints and nails. These drawers get used every time I'm in the shop and contain some heavy stuff. Never had a failure. With today's adhesives, the mechanical strength of the joint is not quite as important.

That said, for heavily used drawers, I would not use a lock miter. It's too difficult to set up the bit and it offers no significant strength advantage over a drawer lock bit.

I just built some shop drawers and used a groove and tenon. The groove is in the side pieces and the full length tenon is in the front. It's a very strong joint fully supported in the direction of the load as the drawer is opened.

If you want to show off--and who doesn't?--dovetails are nice.

I don't know how many drawers you need to do but making drawers for kitchens is really a production job. You need to think about how to make identical pieces and how to schedule out operations. Jigs and fixtures are worth thinking about.

 

[woodguy1975]

I only dovetail. I plan ahead and setup my Leigh for two drawer sizes at a time to minimize the amount of setup. I cut all drawer sides at the same time with a stop block. Drawer fronts are cut and labeled. Backs are cut to to length after routing the groove in the sides. Unless it is a super high end job I don't dovetail the back.

Thanks,

John

 

[HardRock]

Thanks for all the info!

to my inexperienced eye, I didn't see much diff in the two lock miter joints. All the retailer catalogs tout the ease of set up for both. It's good to find out one is easier than the other.

I've got some bath/laundry cabinets to do first. I think I'll go with the drawer lock miters (DLM) and plan on a dovetail jig for the kitchen cabinets.

What advantages / disadvantages to going with DLM in the shaper Vs DLM in the router?

Are the Wooldline USA bits decent?

Another question. Drawer bottoms: is it practical to use solid wood for the bottoms? If so, how thick/thin should the bottoms be?

 

[frigator]

I never liked the lock miter bit, like someone said, a pain to set up. I guess the answer depends on what your drawer sides are, if they are ply I prefer not to dovetail ply, it takes alot of effort to keep it from splintering. So if its ply, the drawer lock works OK.

But a simple rabbit joint with a two or three evenly spaced dowels driven in made from a contrasting wood makes a nice looking drawer and dowels are strong. I really dont think the drawer lock has much advantage over a doweled rabbet joint. Just glue it square and add the dowels later.

For the rear I usually cut a dado about 1/2in from the end of the side and put the back in there, which can also be doweled if you want. That way if you put in a drawer stop its not banging on the rear of the drawer, but the side only.... Its been a while since I used the drawer lock bit but I seem to recall one piece has got to be vertical on the router table.

attaching sides to front?

1. Kitchen and bath cabinet drawers, assuming that there will be a double front, in that the outside front of the drawer is larger than the drawer opening in the cabinet and that this front is attached to the hidden front that dimensionally matches the sides in height............

What is the perfered method for attaching the hidden front to the sides? I've narrowed it down to three, either drawer lock miter, 45 degree lock miter and of course dovetails.

The lock miters seem to be an easy "pull out proof" construction method, but is there an advantage to the drawer lock miter VS the 45 degree lock miter? I'm leaning towards the dovetail jig deal anyway, but the mitered joint is certainly less intimidating.

Construction material will be red oak and poplar solid wood.

 

[toolferone]

Another question. Drawer bottoms: is it practical to use solid wood for the bottoms? If so, how thick/thin should the bottoms be?

I would use plywood. It is much stronger at the same thickness and you don't have any wood movement issues. A solid bottom would need to be made like a raised panel door. Way to much work for a basic drawer. In a solid bottom you orientate the wood to move front and back so it expands out the back of the drawer and does not lock your drawer closed or real sticky. Have fun!

 

[Joe Scharle]

I re-read your post and I missed the part about the 2 piece front the first time. Blind DTs all around would be a simple setup in that case, then glue the fronts on later. However, since we had a similiar discussion about lock miters awhile back I had this pic in my album. It shows another way to cut a drawer lock with a spline cutter. I used to cut them on the TS before I discovered the router bit. I tried the spline bit after seeing this article, but prefer the router bit since it's self aligning.

 

[D L Ames]

Joe, that looks like an excellent technique for using a spline bit to create a drawer lock joint. Thanks for posting it.

D L

 

[Ray Martin]

Hey Joe,

Where did you get that? From the page displayed, I would think that the you have a great reference there.

Ray

 

[Joe Scharle]

Hey Joe,

Where did you get that? From the page displayed, I would think that the you have a great reference there.

Ray

From: Routing & Shaping by Nick Engler
1992 by Bookworks
Rodale Press

 

[Joe Scharle]

Thanks for all the info!

to my inexperienced eye, I didn't see much diff in the two lock miter joints. All the retailer catalogs tout the ease of set up for both. It's good to find out one is easier than the other.

The lock miter joint has to satisfy 3 dimensions in order for the opposing sides and the 45 deg miters to come out flush and tight. Which is why the setup is difficult for frustration challenged folks like me.

I've got some bath/laundry cabinets to do first. I think I'll go with the drawer lock miters (DLM) and plan on a dovetail jig for the kitchen cabinets.

I'm just the opposite, as my practice work would be where it would be less noticeable.


What advantages / disadvantages to going with DLM in the shaper Vs DLM in the router?

Shaper bits are generally more expensive. My shaper was so old I had to shim the bits for exact fit.

Are the Wooldline USA bits decent?

I can't answer that because if I don't but locally I buy mostly from MLCS (FREE SHIPPING), and it's difficult for me to accept value based shipping. The more I spend, the more it cost!

Another question. Drawer bottoms: is it practical to use solid wood for the bottoms? If so, how thick/thin should the bottoms be?

Stick with good 1/4" plywood bottoms. Solid wood bottoms require that the back be cut high enough for the bottom to expand under it! Otherwise it will blow out the front or back.
Also, experiment with 1/2" plywood sides, back & front. Good quality birch machines well, has an interesting look and is of course very stable.

As always, Play Safe
Joe

 

[HardRock]

That looks good, nothing like a picture for understanding.

Thanks all.