Do I NEED a new router?

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cpowell

Chuck
Senior User
I cut out the frames for my gun cab project today. I had a 3 piece raised panel set that is 5 years old I have never used. No name brand.

I practiced rail/stile setup on scrap stock. Tried on 3/4 stock and found that this set needs 7/8 stock. I have some straight stock so dimensioning to 7/8 is not gonna be a problem.

I made a set of rails/stiles and the fit looked pretty doggone good. Made the cuts in two passes (PC 693 vs router). Had a little tearout on the rail copes but using a backer seemed to fix that. Ok, I'm cooking with oil now, got a nice frame set...let's try the raised panel bit. I'm stoked.

Well, the router plate that came with my Benchdog router table is only two inch. RP bit is 3.25 inch diameter.

I can buy a phenolic Benchdog ProPlate with a 3.6 inch hole for $33.46 from Amazon (no reducing inserts for this plate). Or the aluminum Proplate 40-018 with reducers to provide 2", 2.625", 3.625" for $82.45. Both have holes predrilled to mate with my PC 693. Hmmm, what to do? :eusa_thin

Then I get to thinking maybe I should just break down and get the larger aluminum plate and a new router. Something big enough to spin a big bit without complaining too much. :eusa_thin

Then I get to thinking I should build a larger table top, buy a larger router plate and a new router. :eusa_danc OK, I'm getting carried away here. Back down to earth.

What do you think? Buy the phenolic plate (cheap) and make the raised panel in 2 or 3 passes and live with my small router? Or buy a big router and aluminum plate? Eventually I'm gonna get one anyhow, right?

Other cheaper ideas are valued and appreciated. Like, can I make one out of wood for this single project?

Chuck
 
T

toolferone

Chuck, That router is to small for that big bit. A 3hp vs is a much better choice for that big bit. I have one set up in my router at home and the store. I could give you a hand if needed with the big bit.
 

Jim Murphy

New User
Fern HollowMan
You need an ugly green monster, the renowned Hitachi M12-V. That is a workhorse in a table and doesn't slow down for anybody. Shucks, if I could fit a bandsaw blade to it I wouldn't need to visit Jeff to slice boards.

Seriously, I had a PC 7529 in the table, and it worked. Then I got an M12-V and WOW. Lots of mulepower in that rig.

It ain't pretty, it ain't slick, it's kinda sorta slung together (very well), but when she spins up, you can shove it across the cutter, and it doesn't stall.

YBGYD (Okay folks,for many years, when you came into Raleigh from Durham on US 70, this huge sign was above Crabtree Creek on your right. What does YBGYD mean, and who put it up there? Cherry shavings from my 3rd attempt at HCDTs to the first winning answer.)

Is HCDT in the North Carolina Woodworker dictionary?
 
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jmauldin

New User
Jim
I agree. The PC693 is not designed to handle bits of that nature. There are several good 3 hp routers out there. Bosch is at the top of my list, but that is personal preference. Get you a good 3 hp. and build a good router table to go with it. Woodsmith has some good plans, or check out DIY, or Norm Abrams book.
Jim in Mayberry
 

cpowell

Chuck
Senior User
I walked to the shop to get the actual model number...I was close. Model is actually PC 690 LRVS, 1 3/4 HP (yeah, right), 10000 - 27000 rpm.

It will run slow enough to use the bit...just doesn't seem sized to handle the task at hand. Anyone ever try HCRP (hand cut raised panels)? :lol: :lol:

I had thought about the M12V. Hard to pull the trigger on it.

To be honest it's going to be really fun trying to cut the end grain raised panels on the upper cab. The panels will be roughly 15 inches wide by 54 inches long (I haven't designed the upper cab yet). I'm going to need to fab a stand to support the stock.

I probably need to put a router in the extension table on my Uni. I can see the advantages.

I'm starting to think I should try to talk my friend into flat panels on the gun cabinet. :-D

Chuck
 

erasmussen

RAS
Corporate Member
You can buy a new router and a new router table, which is nice and will do the job easy:)
Or you can if you want to get away cheap, I cut 19 large raised panels for my kitchen in red oak using a very cheap $99 router and it still runs ok ( but I did get a new one sence then).
And I built a large router table 24 x 36 with a nice router mounting plate and a good fence all for under $20:lol::lol::lol:
It all depends on what you want to spend and how you want to go about it.
 

cpowell

Chuck
Senior User
I agree. The PC693 is not designed to handle bits of that nature. There are several good 3 hp routers out there. Bosch is at the top of my list, but that is personal preference. Get you a good 3 hp. and build a good router table to go with it. Woodsmith has some good plans, or check out DIY, or Norm Abrams book.
Jim in Mayberry

Jim, I built a Norm-based RT (I modified the overall size and drawer arrangement and front door/vents) and it is great! :icon_thum I already had a Bench Dog top and fence so I used them. They work OK. I bought them several years ago before I knew what I needed. Not a bad choice to be honest. But, knowing what I do now, if I build another one I will make the top just a little bit larger (it's 24 x 32).
 

mshel

New User
Michael Shelley
Chuck,

As an alternative, you can make the raised panel using a core box bit and the table saw. Or if you don't have the core box bit, you can make it entirely on the table saw. BTDT several times. The only problem with doing it on the table saw is there is no real shape to the panel that is tapered if you know what I mean. If you are having trouble visualizing this, give me a call or stop by and I will show you.

Mike
 

DaveO

New User
DaveO
The answer to the question is simple....YES that is always the answer when a new tool purchase is pending :lol: :lol:

I might be able to make you a good deal on a new style M12, you can't get the old ones any more, I don't think.
Dave:)
 

cpowell

Chuck
Senior User
Chuck, That router is to small for that big bit. A 3hp vs is a much better choice for that big bit. I have one set up in my router at home and the store. I could give you a hand if needed with the big bit.

Thanks for the offer, Tom. I am still in the early stages so I have time to mull over my options. I designed the lower cab last night and made drawings for the front, back, sides. I cut out the frame members for the lower cab today and played with the rail/stile bit.

I've still got interior design work and panels to dimension and glue up. I won't be ready to raise a panel until Thursday.
 

Travis Porter

Travis
Corporate Member
I did a very large panel for a king size bed many years ago (my own bed) in Cherry. The top was arched and it was around 72 inches wide and about 20 inches tall with the grain running length wise. I did NOT use a router table. I mad an extra thick sub base for my router and secured the panel. It actually worked very well.

As for the cope and stiles, I have learned to always use a backer board when cutting the copes. Additionally, it is easier to cut the copes first then cut the stile cuts to clean up any edges.

For the router, you could get away with cutting part of it off on the table saw, doing it in 5 or 6 passes, but you run a strong possibility of ruining the router. Bearings not able to handle it or burning up the armature. It is a big bit to run in that router. If you do decide to get one, I personally believe the HP ratings are bunch of bandsaw. I pay more attention to the amps now than anything. I have a Dewalt DW625, a Bosch 1611, and a PC 7518 all 3 HP. The 7518 was purchased specifically to use in a router lift. I used it for awhile in a Rebel router table and it wasn't bad using the twist type adjustment. The DW625 is a very nice router (it is actually the same design as Elu), and since it is a plunge it has some extra benefits. The 1611 was my first router. The downside to it is it does not have variable speed and it does not have soft start, but it is definitely a workhorse. If you do decide to upgrade, consider how much you are going to invest (router, table, lift) etc and if you start to spend too much, (I cannot believe I am going to say this), you might think about a shaper. For what I spent upgrading my router table set up, I could have bought a shaper. If you are just going to get the router and make/build the rest, no biggie, but if you start adding a bunch of accessories, it is something to consider. They are big, but they are what a router table wants to be when raising panels.

Another alternative - You are welcome to bring your panels to my shop and raise them on my shaper or my router table either one. It will take 30 minutes to do on the shaper (all of them) or about 90 minutes on the router table.
 

Travis Porter

Travis
Corporate Member
YBGYD - You better get your daddy? I seem to remember that sign, but I can't seem to remember what it meant....
 

junquecol

Bruce
Senior User
You need an ugly green monster, the renowned Hitachi M12-V. That is a workhorse in a table and doesn't slow down for anybody. Shucks, if I could fit a bandsaw blade to it I wouldn't need to visit Jeff to slice boards.

Seriously, I had a PC 7529 in the table, and it worked. Then I got an M12-V and WOW. Lots of mulepower in that rig.

It ain't pretty, it ain't slick, it's kinda sorta slung together (very well), but when she spins up, you can shove it across the cutter, and it doesn't stall.

YBGYD (Okay folks,for many years, when you came into Raleigh from Durham on US 70, this huge sign was above Crabtree Creek on your right. What does YBGYD mean, and who put it up there? Cherry shavings from my 3rd attempt at HCDTs to the first winning answer.)

Is HCDT in the North Carolina Woodworker dictionary?
Sign wasn't over Crabtree Creek, but rather in Kid Brewer's cow pasture. It was located so it could be seen coming down the Durham Highway, or NC 50. It wasn't called Creedmore Road at that time. It refered to Kid's political asperations- You Will Be Glad You Did. Had he not backed I. Beverly Lake in Democratic primary, he probably would have never been indited for influence peddling in the sale of tapered aluminum poles to the Highway Commision (now known as DOT) My father and one other person elected Terry Sanford govener that year. After he got the sales tax on food passed, they were the only two people in NC who would admit to having voted for him.
 
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clowman

*********
Clay Lowman
Corporate Member
The answer to the question is simple....YES that is always the answer when a new tool purchase is pending

Words to live by... Yes, I need a new tool.
 

DavidF

New User
David
Two things: One - Don't get a resin router table insert and then hang a 3hp router off it - it sags!!! DAMHIKT!!

Two - I had a single cut to do with a large bit and my old freud does not have speed control or a big enough opening. I had the choice of buying a new router or not, but I actually hired a big bosch from Sunbelt rentals in Durham. Cost me $60 for the weekend. Collected it on Saturday, returned it Monday. Job done!!
 

Mike Wilkins

Mike
Corporate Member
Go ahead with the purchase of a 3horse router and you will not be sorry. I have both PC biggies(plunge and fixed base) with the fixed base dedicated to a table. Leave the smaller machines for the smaller bits.
You can never have too many routers anyway: I am up to 9 now with 4 laminate trimmers.
Yes-I am a tool junkie. Are'nt we all???
 

chris99z71

New User
Chris
Chuck
The cheapest way that I can think of getting out of your dilema without burning up your router is to make a simple horizontal router table with a (much smaller diameter) vertical panel raising bit. You can use a higher bit speed with a smaller HP router. Not to mention some of the other neat stuff that I've seen others do with a horizontal RT like moritses.
If you're set on getting a bigger router, don't forget the Milwaukee 3.5HP (model 5625). It's got built in above-the-table adjustment and it can be pretty regularly found on sale under $200. (mine should arrive tomorrow :eusa_danc )
IIRC, McRob has this model and is very happy with it.
 

wilkesland

New User
Barry Arney
I too went the vertical panel raising bit with the router mounted horizontally. This arrangement works pretty well for smaller horse power routers. I have been pretty satisfied with my results.

If you do decide to go the shaper route, do not make the mistake that I made- purchasing an old Craftsman shaper with half inch spindle (I was at that time still laboring under the 1950's notion of Craftsman). Look for a shaper that has at least 3/4 " spindle. Also, my shaper is not really suited to spinning a large panel raising bit - which is why I purchased the thing in the first place.:-( Be aware that shaper bits are generally more expensive and there is not the variety available as for routers. That said, they are wonderful tools for panel raising -provided you get a real one and not one like I have.

Barry
 

FredP

Fred
Corporate Member
I cut out the frames for my gun cab project today. I had a 3 piece raised panel set that is 5 years old I have never used. No name brand.

I practiced rail/stile setup on scrap stock. Tried on 3/4 stock and found that this set needs 7/8 stock. I have some straight stock so dimensioning to 7/8 is not gonna be a problem.

I made a set of rails/stiles and the fit looked pretty doggone good. Made the cuts in two passes (PC 693 vs router). Had a little tearout on the rail copes but using a backer seemed to fix that. Ok, I'm cooking with oil now, got a nice frame set...let's try the raised panel bit. I'm stoked.

Well, the router plate that came with my Benchdog router table is only two inch. RP bit is 3.25 inch diameter.

I can buy a phenolic Benchdog ProPlate with a 3.6 inch hole for $33.46 from Amazon (no reducing inserts for this plate). Or the aluminum Proplate 40-018 with reducers to provide 2", 2.625", 3.625" for $82.45. Both have holes predrilled to mate with my PC 693. Hmmm, what to do? :eusa_thin

Then I get to thinking maybe I should just break down and get the larger aluminum plate and a new router. Something big enough to spin a big bit without complaining too much. :eusa_thin

Then I get to thinking I should build a larger table top, buy a larger router plate and a new router. :eusa_danc OK, I'm getting carried away here. Back down to earth.

What do you think? Buy the phenolic plate (cheap) and make the raised panel in 2 or 3 passes and live with my small router? Or buy a big router and aluminum plate? Eventually I'm gonna get one anyhow, right?

Other cheaper ideas are valued and appreciated. Like, can I make one out of wood for this single project?

Chuck


new router and plate!! oh and a few new bits and maybe a saw blade or two and... and... and..... well you get it!:-D you cant have too many routers.

fred
 

cpowell

Chuck
Senior User
Solution found - Thanks to DaveO and the NCWoodworker Express!! :lol: :lol:

I'll try to get pics tomorrow.

Chuck
 
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