Disaster: Black spots on White Oak project

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scsmith42

New User
Scott Smith
Dan, there may be some type of residue from your roof that is contaminating the water. Roofing nails or screws where the galvanizing has worn off comes to mind.

I'm pretty positive that there is no way that those spots are fungal in nature.

Great discussion by the way with some superb references from other posters.
 

danmart77

Dan
Corporate Member
Scott I didn't think anybody would be interested in this but its really been a hoot. I don't know what to make of it really but at the end of the day I'm thinking something fell on the surface while in storage. I have only one surface that I didn't touch with tooling and I wiped it down with "distilled rain water" and the spots were everywhere. I only had one surface so the test was limited.

I guess my message after all this discussion is: put a little water on the surface. Its a cheap check and its an easy way to avoid surprises down the road.

I talked to a guy in England that had lots of brown oak that they used on a big project in an old historic site. They opted to fume the oak rather than dye the pieces after assembly. The entire project had black dots. They spent a week bleaching out the wood and coloring it back with oil stains. A major job loss. Live and learn I guess. I have certainly learned some on this one.

Hope you are doing well
Dan
 

Jeff

New User
Jeff
I use rain water captured in a clean container and I let it settle for a few days. I have assumed this is now distilled water if you let it settle for a few days and pour off the top half.

From a chemist. A completely incorrect assumption. The wikiHow article is loaded with bad information and misstatements. Method 3 doesn't even qualify as "deionized" water in an ideal world.

A moot point because you've already ruled out this water source as the problem.
 

Gofor

Mark
Corporate Member
What causes this?
Tannic acid and some ferrous material??

.....

Mike this is a surprise but the bottom line is this is from a ferrous intrusion of one sort or another. In this case, and its still open, I think this tree grew in a mineral rich deposit area and the metal traveled thru the cambium(zylum up). I thought initially that the tooling I did caused it. After talking with some guys I take seriously, they told me "there is no way a plane iron leaves that much metal on the surface of a piece of wood" and anybody that tells you that is just confused.

With my own test--resaw and not touching a board surface with tooling at all I found equal spotting. At this point, I feel like I bought a dozen eggs and cracked one with a purple yoke. The jury is still out on this one.......

Hope this helps
Dan

At first I was going to suspect your ROS if you used one (i.e bearing going out) or your air source if you used compressed air (either tools or blowing down the surface0. However, then you said it did it after just resawing. Could it possibly be coming from the saw/band saw? I discount it being minerals taken up by the tree, because the reaction would have occurred before you ever did any sawing, and the cases of that I have seen resulted in streaks in the grain.

Really a head scratcher!

Go
 

danmart77

Dan
Corporate Member
I discount it being minerals taken up by the tree, because the reaction would have occurred before you ever did any sawing, and the cases of that I have seen resulted in streaks in the grain.

Hey Mark
Truthfully, I'm grasping at straws at this point. At some point(when things slow down a bit) I'm going to get more white oak from the same person and try some crazy test just for the fun of it. With the experiences I just had I can play with the snake without a fatal bite.

I fully agree with your thoughts above. If it was a final answer contest with a big prize, I would choose D. I don't know

Dan
 

CrealBilly

New User
Jeff
I discount it being minerals taken up by the tree, because the reaction would have occurred before you ever did any sawing, and the cases of that I have seen resulted in streaks in the grain.

Hey Mark
Truthfully, I'm grasping at straws at this point. At some point(when things slow down a bit) I'm going to get more white oak from the same person and try some crazy test just for the fun of it. With the experiences I just had I can play with the snake without a fatal bite.

I fully agree with your thoughts above. If it was a final answer contest with a big prize, I would choose D. I don't know

Dan
At some point in the machining process steel got on or came into contact with the WO. My bandsaw mill has stainless steel covering the bed rails for this very reason.
 

scsmith42

New User
Scott Smith
I doubt that it came from the resawing because it appears on the wood top where the edges were routed. It also appears to show up in the ends of the dovetail pins.


Scott
 

mark2

Mark
Corporate Member
method 3 describes how to make drinking water(by allowing sediments to settle) from rain water - not distilled water, which would be the condensate of steam if I recall correctly
 

CrealBilly

New User
Jeff
method 3 describes how to make drinking water(by allowing sediments to settle) from rain water - not distilled water, which would be the condensate of steam if I recall correctly
I think for making drinking water, this works better. On my last hike I packed in no water and I drank, spring, stream and lake water through my lifestraw. Although lake water didnt exactly taste all that good, there's was still nothing like coming upon a water source, sticking your lifestraw in and drinking on demand :thumbs_up

I highly recommend the life straw.
718%2BYoX-0cL._SL1500_.jpg
 

Howard Acheson

New User
Howard
>>>> I use rain water or bottled stuff.

Depending where you live, rain water is a risky choice. If there is something that is putting contaminates into the atmosphere (chimney smoke, industrial exhaust, etc.) As rain falls through the atmosphere it picks up contaminates that are in the air. Many of these contaminates are water soluble so the raindrops pick up and carry the contaminates. So, its a poor practice to count on rain water to be free of contamination (ie, pure). Rain water is not pure water in many cases
 

danmart77

Dan
Corporate Member
Scott
It didn't come from re-sawing, routing, planning, scraping or cutting. I did the same milling steps on two different pieces of the white oak.

With rain water, tap water and bottled water on one board there were no spots at all. On the second trouble board I got spots on all of the surfaces after all of the milling steps.

Your comment on re-sawing made me look back at the photos. When I saw the spots on the deep cut bevel for the panel I started thinking this isn't on the surface. I decided to book match the wood down the center and apply some bottle water. Tons of spots. I hand planed the spots to almost gone from the surface. More water more spots. Now I am not believing a sharp plane iron makes pin dots on the surface of the wood with the A2 steel it leaves behind. Maybe I'm being boneheaded here but it seems like a stretch.

My curiosity is peaked with the results: one board unsolvable the second board no spots from any milling and any type of water.

Its been fun to fool with it while I wait for shellac to dry but I'm coming to the sad conclusion: I don't know what is happening.


later
Dan
 

CrealBilly

New User
Jeff
Scott
It didn't come from re-sawing, routing, planning, scraping or cutting. I did the same milling steps on two different pieces of the white oak.

With rain water, tap water and bottled water on one board there were no spots at all. On the second trouble board I got spots on all of the surfaces after all of the milling steps.

Your comment on re-sawing made me look back at the photos. When I saw the spots on the deep cut bevel for the panel I started thinking this isn't on the surface. I decided to book match the wood down the center and apply some bottle water. Tons of spots. I hand planed the spots to almost gone from the surface. More water more spots. Now I am not believing a sharp plane iron makes pin dots on the surface of the wood with the A2 steel it leaves behind. Maybe I'm being boneheaded here but it seems like a stretch.

My curiosity is peaked with the results: one board unsolvable the second board no spots from any milling and any type of water.

Its been fun to fool with it while I wait for shellac to dry but I'm coming to the sad conclusion: I don't know what is happening.


later
Dan
For me... This is yet another reason to not use water based finishes.
 

danmart77

Dan
Corporate Member
Jeff
To each his own. Some cut dovetails first and some cut pins first. In the end, the joint is the same. Unlike joinery, coloring wood with one medium does not end with the same results as using another. I guess its what pleases each finisher.

Dan
 
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