Difference between fret and coping saws.

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Mike Davis

Mike
Corporate Member
The fretsaw is a saw used for intricate cutting work which often incorporates tight curves. Although the coping saw is often used for similar work, the fretsaw is capable of much tighter radii and more delicate work. It has a distinctive appearance due to the depth of its frame (typically between 10 and 20 inches), which together with the relatively short five inch blade makes this tool appear somewhat out of proportion compared to most other saws.
Compared to the coping saw it has much shallower blades, which are usually extra-fine (up to 32 tpi). This allows much tighter curves to be cut — with many blades even sharp corners are possible — but the blades are also much more fragile compared to that of a coping saw. Unlike the coping saw, the blade has a fixed orientation in relation to the frame. This means that the fretsaw is less useful when cutting long narrow components, but the increased depth of the frame does allow access much further from the edge of the board.
The fretsaw is similar in many respects to the scroll saw, which is essentially a powered fretsaw with a table. Blades between the two tools are usually interchangeable, and indeed scroll saws are often known as "fret saws" informally.
The tool takes its name from its use in fretwork and ultimately from the French freter (lattice) - a reference to the intricate patterns often created using this tool.



A coping saw is a type of hand saw used to cut intricate external shapes and interior cutouts in woodworking or carpentry. It is widely used to cut moldings to create coped rather than miter joints. It is occasionally used to create fretwork though it is not able to match a fretsaw in intricacy of cut, particularly in thin materials. Coping saw blades are always thicker and much coarser cutting than typical fretsaw blades and many others of its family members.
A coping saw consists of a thin, hardened steel blade, stretched between the ends of a square, c-shaped, springy-iron frame to which a handle is attached. The blade is easily removed from the frame so that the blade can be passed through a drilled hole in the middle of a piece of wood. The frame is then re-attached to the blade and the cut starts from the middle of the piece. Long cuts perpendicular to the edge of the material are possible but the shallow depth of the frame rather limits how far from the edge one may cut. The much deeper frame of the fretsaw is more useful for cutting well away from the edge but conversely cannot manage the thicker materials commonly cut by the coping saws.
The coping saw blade is removable by partially unscrewing the handle. The blade is prevented from rotating by means of the short, steady bar provided where the blade is attached. Loosening the handle also allows the blade to be rotated relative to the frame as desired. Carefully aligning the finger steady bars at the top and bottom of the blade ensures that the thin blade is straight and not twisted along its length. Retightening the handle tensions the blade and locks it at the desired angle relative to the frame. The short steady bar nearest the handle is held securely between finger and thumb while the handle is tightened to ensure the blade remains at the desired angle. Unlike the fretsaw the coping saw blade has holding pins which lock securely into the angled slots of the rotatable blade holders.
The direction of the cut is quite easy to change because of the thinness of the blade. Gentle curves are achieved by slowly turning the whole frame by means of the handle while continuing to cut steadily. When necessary, the blade can also be rotated with respect to the frame to make sharper curves in the material being cut. The teeth on a coping saw blade should normally face the handle (i.e., "backwards" as compared with most other Western saws); the action of pulling the coping saw allows the frame to remain in tension (and thus reduces blade breakages). This is the opposite to most other saws which only cut in the "push" direction. Normally the coping saw is used in the vertical position and reciprocated by hand power for the maximum stroke possible without striking the material with the frame. This takes much practice. It may also be used in all other attitudes when the work requires it but even greater skill is required. Blade breakage is fortunately much rarer than with a fretsaw.
 

pviser

New User
paul
Thank you. You have just talked me out of purchasing that new and expensive fret saw being widely advertised. I'll stick with my Dad's old coping saw for roughing out waste on my dovetails.
 

CarvedTones

Board of Directors, Vice President
Andy
Unlike the coping saw, the blade has a fixed orientation in relation to the frame. This means that the fretsaw is less useful when cutting long narrow components, but the increased depth of the frame does allow access much further from the edge of the board.

But it means it is easier to keep dead on a line. I have trouble with the coping saw blade twisting sometimes so the guides end up pointing a few degrees different from each other and the cut wandering very slightly.

And then there is the jeweler's saw for the finest work, which I guess would be classified as a specialized fret saw.
 

Mike Davis

Mike
Corporate Member
Paul,

Megan Fitzpatrick (Spelling?) just did an article on making a dovetailed tool chest using that saw and complained about it taking several hours too long due to the saw and wishing she had a coping saw instead.
 

Gotcha6

Dennis
Staff member
Corporate Member
Having need of a coping saw in my line of work, I do find it frustrating that the only blades readily available for it are so deep. When coping moldings, it makes it difficult to follow small curves with the fatter blades found at the BORGs. Thanks for the info, Mike.
Now I won't fret about which is which....:gar-La;
 

ehpoole

Administrator
Ethan
Also, for members with scroll saws, many (though not necessarily all) fret saw frames (at least those I inherited and have seen for sale) will accept pin-less scroll saw blades, unlike coping saws. This, IMHO, makes the fret saw var more versatile that my coping saws.

Fret saws are available in both deep and shallow frames depending upon your type of work (mine are of the shallow design).
 

Gotcha6

Dennis
Staff member
Corporate Member
Maybe I should find a shallow frame fret saw for coping moldings, then. It would certainly make getting proper blades easier.......
 

CarvedTones

Board of Directors, Vice President
Andy
Here's the article Mike referenced.

Very strange POV. She pretty clearly explains that the blades she used were the problem and then blames the saw, even though there are other blade choices that would put it on par with the coping saw as far as cutting capability goes. Spiral blades to cut dovetails? Seriously? That also eliminates one of the fretsaw's advantages - cutting straight. My main complaint (posted earlier) about the coping saw is that it can turn any blade into a slight spiral.
 

Mike Davis

Mike
Corporate Member
Fret saws use thinner blades which do tend to break in thick or hard woods. Megan's complaint was the flat blade broke early on leaving her with only the spiral blades to work. She also mentioned the shorter stroke of the fret saw, only 2 1/4 inches out of the cut. Working a saw with such a short stroke in thick wood would wear out a tough athlete, even more so an occasional wood worker.

A coping saw uses a longer and thicker blade which is better suited to cutting in thick and dense wood. It also is capable of cutting at 90° to the frame. Cutting the waste from dovetails requires only a gentle curve to get the blade into the opposite corner on the first cut and then a straight cut from that corner to the other. A fret saw is the wrong tool and was Megan's problem.

If the handle on a coping saw is tightened properly the blade won't twist.
 

CarvedTones

Board of Directors, Vice President
Andy
Fret saws use thinner blades which do tend to break in thick or hard woods. Megan's complaint was the flat blade broke early on leaving her with only the spiral blades to work. She also mentioned the shorter stroke of the fret saw, only 2 1/4 inches out of the cut. Working a saw with such a short stroke in thick wood would wear out a tough athlete, even more so an occasional wood worker.

A coping saw uses a longer and thicker blade which is better suited to cutting in thick and dense wood. It also is capable of cutting at 90° to the frame. Cutting the waste from dovetails requires only a gentle curve to get the blade into the opposite corner on the first cut and then a straight cut from that corner to the other. A fret saw is the wrong tool and was Megan's problem.

If the handle on a coping saw is tightened properly the blade won't twist.

Mike,

She was using a Knew Concepts fret saw. Check this review. It is not restricted to 90, but also locks at 45 in either direction so you can cut straight at the bottom of a dovetail. And when Megan says "After snapping the only regular fretsaw blade I had" I have to admit I was taken aback a bit. What the heck does "regular" mean? Here is a standard assortment. Did she snap a #2 or a #7?

I have a couple of coping saws and neither is larger than the fretsaw in the picture with the article. A bow saw would be. My coping saws only tighten at the handle and not at the top, which is the one that tends to get slightly off line.
 

Mike Davis

Mike
Corporate Member
Mike,

She was using a Knew Concepts fret saw. Check this review. It is not restricted to 90, but also locks at 45 in either direction so you can cut straight at the bottom of a dovetail. And when Megan says "After snapping the only regular fretsaw blade I had" I have to admit I was taken aback a bit. What the heck does "regular" mean? Here is a standard assortment. Did she snap a #2 or a #7?

I have a couple of coping saws and neither is larger than the fretsaw in the picture with the article. A bow saw would be. My coping saws only tighten at the handle and not at the top, which is the one that tends to get slightly off line.

She had the 5 inch fret saw. Coping saw blades are 6 1/2 inch.

Regular blade - she meant non-spiral. Didn't say what size.

When my coping saw is tightened it does not move unless I force it.
 

CarvedTones

Board of Directors, Vice President
Andy
Interesting enough, Chris Schwarz thinks a spiral blade on the Knew Concept fret saw is the right answer:

[video=youtube;2USw9vYHMCM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2USw9vYHMCM[/video]

That is thin wood.

I hate spiral blades, but that is mostly because of the mess you can make on a scroll saw project if you ever have a little accidental side pressure.

My coping saws are not particularly good ones.
 

Mike Davis

Mike
Corporate Member
I thought it was quite clear that this thread was copied from Wikipedia. I'm very sorry if that was not as obvious as I thought.

i'd be happy to write an article describing and photographing the various saws, but this is not my work.
 
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