Combination Machines

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ashley_phil

Phil Ashley
Corporate Member
Do any of you guys own a combination machine? (FELDER, ROBLAND, SCMI etc?)

I'm fairly certain that I want one for the garage given my limited amount of space, but I'd like get a first hand opinion before taking the plunge.

Thanks for any help you guys can supply.

Phil
 

Bernhard

Bernhard
User
Phil,

I have a Felder (cf700 series professional) and some other Felder equipment. I am travelling right now, but I will be back in the US tomorrow night. If you want to chat about the equipment, pm me and I´ll call you. You are also welcome to take a look at it.
Cheers,
Bernhard
 

ashley_phil

Phil Ashley
Corporate Member
Great thanks for the heads up! - Bernhard, I'll be in touch with you. I think FELDER is the best, but I don't know if that's in my budget.
 

michaelgarner

New User
Michael
Phil,
You can always save up and look for sales. I always try to get the best I can buy. Combo machines are pretty cool, I have worked on one before and it was very impressive. You just have to plan out your production very well before you do. I bet it will make a great addition to your shop.
 

mkepke

Mark
Senior User
Hi Phil:

I have a Robland X31. I almost bought a Felder BF641. What did you want to know ?

I have a lot of opinions, but you might not want to hear them all :lol:

-Mark
 

ashley_phil

Phil Ashley
Corporate Member
Well a ROBLAND x31 would meet or exceed my current needs, but I may buy an older SCMI Combo we have in stock to save money.

The main concerns I have are whether working with one is "inconvenient" in having to change from station to station. My thoughts are that I'll be the only one using it can only do one function at a time anyway right? So i don't see it being an issue.

The main reason I want one is lack of space. My thoughts are that I can store the machine on one side of my 2-car garage and roll it out to my driveway when working easy as pie so to speak. I think this might be a pipe dream though. How well do the machines hold tolerance when moved and how much of a beast is it to move a 1,000 lb chunk of iron around?

So I don't know if you have thoughts or comments you can add along these lines. But i would appreciate your opinions.

phil
 

Bernhard

Bernhard
User
...
The main concerns I have are whether working with one is "inconvenient" in having to change from station to station. My thoughts are that I'll be the only one using it can only do one function at a time anyway right? So i don't see it being an issue.

The main reason I want one is lack of space. My thoughts are that I can store the machine on one side of my 2-car garage and roll it out to my driveway when working easy as pie so to speak. I think this might be a pipe dream though. How well do the machines hold tolerance when moved and how much of a beast is it to move a 1,000 lb chunk of iron around?

So I don't know if you have thoughts or comments you can add along these lines. But i would appreciate your opinions.

phil

Phil,
finally got back into town. here are my 2 cents:
Change-over: In general not a problem. The worst scenario is the change-over from shaper to saw. Let's assume that you have the shaper hood and fence mounted and need to use the saw for cutting a 4x8 sheet. You may have to remove the shaper hood/fence and turn down the cutter head. Cutter head position is repeatable within 10th of millimeters easily. Shaper hood and fence is easily repeatable within a millimeter or 2, but will require a test cut (imho) after re-installation. Position of power feeder will most likely need re-adjusting - if used. All other change-overs are neglegible.

Moving: I have the mobility kit on mine. sofar I have changed the location about 10x....still haven't found the optimal set up. Suffice to say, moving is surprisingly easy. I can roll the machine anywhere in my shop without any problem whatsoever. I also have not noticed any decrease in accuracy. I have used my combo in a position where the floor was so uneven, that the sliding table was moving when not in the locked position. However, I have now marked the place and leveled the machine on its final resting place. So when I moved it a while ago to mount the aircleaner on the ceiling, I checked alignment of most everything with dial indicator and precision squares and test cuts and could not tell a difference before of after.

and a final thought: When I was taking the plunge and I had narrowed the choice to 3 manufacturers, I visited shops that had the equipment to see it in action (ask the manufacture for references). For me, the investment in the combo was a one-time purchase which I plan to keep forever (baring I win the powerball). I wanted to make absolutley sure that I got the best equipment for my money. I also found that manufacturers that also offered industrial equipment generally had a better product. I hope I don't sound like a used car salesman and I am not a paid advertiser for Felder, but IMHO, Felder has the the top of the line in that class.
Fit and finish, craftsmanship, safety features, quality, availibility of jigs and options, special tooling, longevity of the company, technical support and support on the FOG (Felder's Owner Group on Yahoo)sets it apart from the others.
Also, check the FOG group website, there are combos for sale at reasonable prices. There was one listed on woodweb about 10 days ago, it may be still available.
If you have any specific questions, please feel free to call me. Also, you are most welcome to stop by kick the tires.

Good luck!
Bernhard
 
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ashley_phil

Phil Ashley
Corporate Member
Bernhard

Thanks for all the useful information.

I really appreciate it. I'll check out the Yahoo site and yes I agree that the FELDER product is the cream of the crop.

I tend to talk about machines in terms of cars and I'd say the FELDER is a top of the line AUDI, LEXUS type, their HAMMER line is TOYOTA, CHEVY along with the ROBLAND & MINI-MAX series. ROJEK and the like would be KIA, DAEWOO is my thoughts.

I myself drive a beat up JEEP with 155,000 miles so I might shoot for something more along those lines.

My other thoughts are how I can mount an overarm blade guard for the table saw, but I think it can be done. The excalibar is removable, just another part of set-up or change over.

Thanks again for your feedback.

phil
 

Bernhard

Bernhard
User
Bernhard

....I tend to talk about machines in terms of cars and I'd say the FELDER is a top of the line AUDI, LEXUS type, their HAMMER line is TOYOTA, CHEVY along with the ROBLAND & MINI-MAX series. ROJEK and the like would be KIA, DAEWOO is my thoughts.

I myself drive a beat up JEEP with 155,000 miles so I might shoot for something more along those lines.....


phil


Phil,

I terms of cars, I drive a little Hyundai. Cars depreciate too much, besides cars -from my point of view- are totally utilitarian. BUT wood working tools that's another story.

Anyway, there is a Felder Combo (slider with shaper) listed on woodweb, reasonable priced.

Cheers,
Bernhard
 

ashley_phil

Phil Ashley
Corporate Member
Phil,

I terms of cars, I drive a little Hyundai. Cars depreciate too much, besides cars -from my point of view- are totally utilitarian. BUT wood working tools that's another story.

Anyway, there is a Felder Combo (slider with shaper) listed on woodweb, reasonable priced.

Cheers,
Bernhard


Well that's a very good point. I haven't thought about it that way!

Thanks again for your input.

Phil
 

mkepke

Mark
Senior User
I would caution that there are differences among brands of combo machines, as there are differences among brands of almost anything.

To contrast my Robland to Bernhard's Felder - the switchover from shaper to saw is also the most onerous and is as Bernhard described, however the Robland does not have any magic (digital readouts or otherwise) to re-locate the spindle height and shaper fences. Test cuts definitely *will* be required..exactly what you'd go through if you had torn down the set-up on a conventional mid-priced shaper.

My Robland requires that the saw fence (body, not rail) be removed when using the planer, since the saw fence tube is attached to the jointer's outfeed table and the outfeed table needs to be moved to access the planer.

I have the mobility kit and neither mobility nor stability are a problem, although you do need *some* muscle to push 1100# around. I would caution that the mobility kits on these machines are designed for pretty level surfaces - not all-terrain. If your garage floor has a lip, you will have a problem.

In terms of settings - I need to re-align the sliding table on my machine as a result of my inter-city move and that is a PITA on the Roblands. Otherwise I have not had a problem.

What the Robland does, it does well. Where it suffers - especially compared to a Felder - is in design. As in "why'd they do it THAT way, instead of THIS way ?". Weigh that against cost of course.

Come by and take a look if you are in south Wake county at some point.

-Mark
 

mkepke

Mark
Senior User
Hey Bernhard - how are you mounting your power-feeder ?

I just picked up a 1HP Delta and want to use it with both the shaper and saw functions.

Have you tapped your saw top or are you using a more mobile solution ?

-Mark
 

Bernhard

Bernhard
User
Hey Bernhard - how are you mounting your power-feeder ?

I just picked up a 1HP Delta and want to use it with both the shaper and saw functions.

Have you tapped your saw top or are you using a more mobile solution ?

-Mark

Mark,

The powerfeeder mounts on a bracket attached about midway on the back of the unit. It is pretty cool: When not in use, the complete unit can be tilt over and is out of the way. I started using the feeder for pretty much eveything: joining, shaper and repetitive cuts on the saw (if the slide is not used). I'll take some pictures and email them. If memory serves me right (which is a stretch) Robland for some reason doesn't offer a tilt bracket, but the idea is easily copied and I am positive you can build/adapt the idea.

Cheers,
Bernhard
 

rbdoby

New User
Rick
I agree with everything Mark has said about the Robland X-31. I've had mine for 8 years and made everything from small jewelry boxes to king size beds and kitchen cabinets with it. But like any piece of machinery it has it's own limitations. You learn to plan ahead on a combination machine. Gang as many machining operations together as possible so you are not continually switching the machine around.

I like my Robland. When I bought it the only other european style combination machine on the US market was the Felder which was out of my price range. I have gotten good service from Laguna Tools for the few thing that have gone wrong on my X31. I like the looks of the Mini Max (I saw one at the Charlotte Woodworking show 2 years ago) and it is priced between the X31 and a Felder.

If you would like to test drive a Robland X31 you are welcome to come and try mine anytime. I'm about 90 minutes north of Charlotte off I77 at exit 93, then east about 12 miles.

Rick Doby
 
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