Can Ugly Dye Finish be Improved?

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Barry W

Co-Director of Outreach
Barry
Corporate Member
[FONT=&quot]Upon the recommendation of my wife, after showing her samples of various finishes, I dye stained a project with[/FONT] General Finishes Classic Cherry dye stain. We found that a small sample does not always look like the finished (no pun intended) product. The cherry book case is too red and very ugly.

I bought the dye stain at Klingspor in Winston-Salem and noticed display samples which were dye stained with various mixes of multiple dye colors that resulted in very pleasing finishes. Can I use other colors of dye or gel stain over the Classic Cherry dye to achieve a more pleasing color?

 
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chris_goris

Chris
Senior User
[FONT=&amp]Upon the recommendation of my wife, after showing her samples of various finishes, I dye stained a project with[/FONT] General Finishes Classic Cherry dye stain. We found that a small sample does not always look like the finished (no pun intended) product. The cherry book case is too red and very ugly.

I bought the dye stain at Klingspor in Winston-Salem and noticed display samples which were dye stained with various mixes of multiple dye colors that resulted in very pleasing finishes. Can I use other colors of dye or gel stain over the Classic Cherry dye to achieve a more pleasing color?

Have you top coated it yet?
 

chris_goris

Chris
Senior User
​Nope, I should have mentioned this in my OP.

Did you create a test board? I would start there. Put some dewaxed shellac or whatever you plan on topcoating with, do not change any colors on this test piece, use it the same as you applied to your project. I say shellac because you can layer on different colors this way with other dye colors to get to your desired end color. The dyes look MUCH different without topcoatings applied.
 

Bill Clemmons

Bill
Corporate Member
Barry, you used the term "dye stain". Can you clarify that? Was this a water soluable dye or an oil based stain? The solution will depend on which you actually used.

If it is a WS dye, try mixing a new batch w/ some of the cherry and more of a darker, browner color (e.g. walnut, brown mahogany, etc.). Then apply that over the original finish. As always, try it on a (larger) sample first.

If you used an oil stain, was it just stain, or was it a "stain and finish", like Minwax? If it was just stain, w/ no sealer or finish mixed in, then you can apply a second stain over it to get the color you want. Again, sample first.
 

danmart77

Dan
Corporate Member
If you used a water based dye and its too red, you can bring it back to a brown buy applying a green water based dye. Don't make a super strong green that is very dark. Start out with a weaker green over the red and you will be surprised how it changes the red.

Its just color wheel 101.

If you put any sealer on or oil.. all advise in the can.

good luck.
 

Jeff

New User
Jeff
That GF cherry dye stain is water based. Before you do any other "fixin" wipe the book case down with fresh rags, water, and elbow grease and see what you get. It should remove some stain but I don't know if it'll remove enough of the red color to be acceptable.
 

Mike Davis

Mike
Corporate Member
I may have some General Finishes dye stain in a brown if you want to try it.

Sorry, just checked, I got the milk paint.
 
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Phil S

Phil Soper
Staff member
Corporate Member
As Dan said adding green will subtract the red. Plus all dyes look different after finish and after finish, color can be adjusted more with glazes. Test board would be good
 

Barry W

Co-Director of Outreach
Barry
Corporate Member
Thanks to all for your replies and suggestions. This was the first time I have used water-based dye stain and I wasn't sure if I would have any success over-dyeing (before sealing) with another color. The only other dye-stain I have on hand is Cinnamon, an almost burgundy color. Looks like I will be making an unexpected trip to W-Salem tomorrow.:embarrassed: I will try the suggested green and brown dyes on a test piece to see which combination is more pleasing. My plan is to use a mix of 1/3 BLO + 1/3 spar varnish + 1/3 mineral spirits (thanks, Mike), which may also change the color. I may run out of test scraps.

This is the dye I used:
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Tarhead

Mark
Corporate Member
On one section of your test board apply a coat of shellac and then a coat of Vandyke brown glaze and remove with 3 dry paint brushes in sequence. The paint brush technique allows for a very even tone by the time you finish with the third. Then another coat of shellac after it dries. I've found it will tone down overly bright colors. The glaze comes in a rattle can.
[video=youtube;1Ppx3_acCs0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ppx3_acCs0[/video]
 
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Jeff

New User
Jeff
A few questions as you continue on your testing to improve the appearance of the bookcase.

1. Did you build the bookcase from cherry wood? If so, why did you put stain on top of it to begin with?

2. Too red and you folks want it less reddish?

Just curious so I bought this easy to use color wheel for woodworkers today. It'lll be interesting to play with it and see how to make toned down red with green or brown as suggested by others.

https://www.rockler.com/finishers-c...MIoP6SrMXZ3QIVBrXACh1rEgc-EAQYAyABEgLh1PD_BwE
 
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Graywolf

Board of Directors, President
Richard
Staff member
Corporate Member
Barry, I look forward to hearing how this turned out for you. I think you have gotten some good advice. I would have chimed in but I'm a little more hands on when it comes to correcting what your going through. I've been there and avoiding failure is a little nerve racking. Do the test boards and experiment have some fun. You just might learn more than you planed. I look forward to you sharing how it turns out.
 

Barry W

Co-Director of Outreach
Barry
Corporate Member
A few questions as you continue on your testing to improve the appearance of the bookcase.

1. Did you build the bookcase from cherry wood? If so, why did you put stain on top of it to begin with?

2. Too red and you folks want it less reddish?

Just curious so I bought this easy to use color wheel for woodworkers today. It'lll be interesting to play with it and see how to make toned down red with green or brown as suggested by others.

https://www.rockler.com/finishers-c...MIoP6SrMXZ3QIVBrXACh1rEgc-EAQYAyABEgLh1PD_BwE


Jeff, yes the bookcase is made of 3/4" cherry ply and 3/4" cherry boards and it is too red after applying Vintage Cherry dye stain. I bought Light Brown and Medium Brown dye stain after seeing examples of using those two colors combined with Vintage Cherry at Klingspor's today. The medium brown applied over the Vintage Cherry looks better than the cherry alone.
 

Jeff

New User
Jeff
[FONT=&quot]The medium brown applied over the Vintage Cherry looks better than the cherry alone[/FONT]

An encouraging start! Keep on experimenting until you get closer to what you folks want.

Send us a few WIP pics for comparison (better than 1000 words).
 

Barry W

Co-Director of Outreach
Barry
Corporate Member
Send us a few WIP pics for comparison (better than 1000 words).

This is looking better than I thought it would. The shelves are actually closer to the color of the sides - - - the lighting often works tricks.

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Jeff

New User
Jeff
Wow, I thought that you wanted to tone down the red of the vintage cherry dye stain. That you did, essentially obliterating it!

Maybe you should have diluted the medium brown dye stain quite a bit.
 

Barry W

Co-Director of Outreach
Barry
Corporate Member
Wow, I thought that you wanted to tone down the red of the vintage cherry dye stain. That you did, essentially obliterating it!

Maybe you should have diluted the medium brown dye stain quite a bit.

I now see that you are probably correct. However, when I saw what the medium brown did to remove the red (light brown did not do enough) I did not consider doing a middle-of-the-road blend of brown. Oh well, there's always the next time.:rolleyes:
 

Hmerkle

Board of Directors, Development Director
Hank
Staff member
Corporate Member
As Dan said adding green will subtract the red. Plus all dyes look different after finish and after finish, color can be adjusted more with glazes. Test board would be good
Can you and Dan do another color class?
 
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