Cabinet Making Router Bits?

[Wilmingtonian]

:eusa_doh: I have been looking to buy a matched set of rail and stile bits and a raised panel bit. :help: I have seen sets for $50 to $150. Grizzly has a three piece set with undercut for $70+. Does Grizzly have quality bits? I have also looked at Bosch, but they are about $108 for a matched set. I think that I would prefer the classic stile with a 25 deg raised panel. What is your opinion on undercut bits? Where do buy your cabinet door bits? :slap: Thanks for your help,

-David

 

[4yanks]

David,
If you are looking to build a lot of cabinets I think those sets are fine. I own a set I bought several years ago from a reseller named trend-lines (taiwan made). I never use it anymore. The joint left by the matched stile and rail cutters is very weak. The coped joint (sometimes refered to rather grandly as a stub tenon) doesn't offer a lot of long grain to long grain glue surface (cross-grain at that). As I said if you have a lot of them to do this may be a consideration. I think a much better approach is to mortice and tenon the stiles and rails. Cut a groove for the panel on their edges using your table saw with a standard blade by turning the stock so that you make a cut with each face against the fence. This will produce a perfectly centered 1/4" groove. Then cut 1/4" mortices inside the grooves of the stiles. Then use a 1/4" roundover/beading bit (or whatever profile you like) and put a decorative edge on one side of the grooved side of your stock. One the stiles cut a miter into the grooved side to the depth of the groove. The distance from the end of the stiles to the miters should match the width of the mating rails. Then trim the stock on the sides of the grooves from the miter to the end of the rail so that the remaining surface is flush with the groove. This flush area will have your mortice centered in it. Now, cut your tennons to match the mortice. You will notice that you cannot fully seat the tenon at this point. To fix this miter the grooved edge of the rail so that the edges of the grooves are cut just to the edge of the tenons shoulder. With some minor fitting they should come together and look just like a router/shaper created joint. However, this joint will be substantially stronger. For the panels just get a raised panel profile that suits your taste. It is possible to make every cut for raised panel doors on your table saw. But that's another story. Hope this helps.

 

[Wilmingtonian]

Wow, thanks for the detail directions. I will try it before dropping all that cash. It does seem a bite complicated. I will let you know how it goes.

David

 

[4yanks]

It is more complicated. But not as complicated as I make it sound. Once you do one it becomes much easier. I found some sites with illustrations.

http://www.woodworking.org/WC/GArchive04/2_7aldendoor.html

http://www.cadcourse.com/winston/Panel.html

I hope they help.

 

[Charles M]

David,
IThe joint left by the matched stile and rail cutters is very weak.

Perhaps the set you have produces an inferior joint. I have never seen a joint failure related to the S&R jonery on a cabinet door except when we subject them to real extremes that no one would encounter in the real world.

 

[4yanks]

This is not to say that anyones tooling is inferior. In fact doors that I have made with my set have yet to fail. I have seen these joints fail on older kitchen cabinets in a few different houses. These doors were subjected to a fair amount of real world abuse (what kitchen isn't). With limited glue surface, old drying glue and heavy use, that these joints last as long as they do are a testement to the quality of tooling made, or simply marketed by, companies like yours. If I were in the cabinet business to make a living there is no way I would cut these joints any other way than on a shaper with matched cutters for the coped profile. The cost of labor involved in a true mortice and tenon joint is not justified for the professional. However, for the one-off homeshop WW or professional who specializes in high-end furniture. I would recommend the mortice and tenon method. I don't think anyone will differ with me when I say that it is stronger than a coped joint and more likely to stand the test of time. Additionally it takes less of an investment in cash.

Please don't take this to mean that I don't think that Freud tooling is superior. I have 4 Freud premium saw blades, an 8" Master Dado Set, and probably 2 dozen of your router bits. When I consider tooling purchases Freud is always on my short-list.

 

[jmauldin]

David,
Check out Price Cutter.com for some of the best selections of top quality router bits at very reasonable prices.
JimM in Mayberry

 

[woodguy1975]

I would buy a cabinet making door set of bits from Frued or Whiteside. Making doors with these bits produce doors that are extremely strong. I've never had one fail either. For large doors I will add a loose tenon to the joint to add strength, but for kitchen doors he profile has plenty of glue surface. I've made doors with the intent on breaking them to investigate their strength. I agree with 4yanks that the M&T doors are probably stronger if done correctly, but there is a lot less fuss with a rail and style set. For a furniture peice with 2-4 doors I would do the M&T door because it is traditional, but on a cabinet job with 30+ doors I would not consider doing the M&T work. Since you are a fairly new woodworker I think you will end up with a more consistent joint with the R&S bits.

Good Luck,

John

 

[woodguy1975]

This is not to say that anyones tooling is inferior. In fact doors that I have made with my set have yet to fail. I have seen these joints fail on older kitchen cabinets in a few different houses. These doors were subjected to a fair amount of real world abuse (what kitchen isn't). With limited glue surface, old drying glue and heavy use, that these joints last as long as they do are a testement to the quality of tooling made, or simply marketed by, companies like yours. If I were in the cabinet business to make a living there is no way I would cut these joints any other way than on a shaper with matched cutters for the coped profile.

THe nice thing about shaper profiles is surface area. You can get shaper profiles with deeper grooves and longer tenons that will do nothing but improve it's strength.

John

 

[Steve D]

Ditto on the stile & rail set. I would also agree with the recommendation on Freud and Whiteside. I also have a set from CMT that I am very pleased with. The failures in old kitchen cabinets that I have seen have resulted from a breakdow of the glue itself and were not related to inadequate surface area. Glue technology has come a long way in the past few years and a well matched stile & rail set coupled with a quality glue will provide a joint that will easily hold up to the use and abuse of a kitchen.

Mortise & Tennon joints are a fine method for joint construction but they too can have their problems. Too tight and the glue is squeezed out creating a glue starved joint. Too loose and voids lead to failure. I would not hesitate to use a good quality stile & rail set for a kitchen and I'm doing just that with my own kitchen right now.

 

[stoneskippers]

I can't talk about the other cabinet bit set, but I have a set from CMT. I've made about thirty raised panel door with the panels being heart maple and all of the rails and stiles out of hickory and the only failure I had was my mistake. When you take your time and setup properly everything should go ok. This is something you really what a go router table and strong router, variable speed preferred. I'm sure the other set are ok.