Bathroom Remodel Disaster

Wiley's Woodworks

Wiley
Corporate Member
Our pretty straightforward bathroom remodel has turned into a disaster. The problem is the GC mis-sized the jacuzzi tub enclosure, and now the fiberglass tub sticks up 1/2" above the already tiled tub enclosure. I know the tub has to sit on a bed of mortar on the subfloor. The installation instructions call for a 1" thick mortar bed, and I know that is overkill. My main ? is how thin of a mortar bed can be laid down and still be safe? Also what are the odds of being able to remove the fiberglass tub that is cemented in on a new mortar bed without cracking the tub?
 

Henry W

Henry
Corporate Member
Isn't all of this the GC's problem to fix?
Or was the GC dismissed/fired for workmanship issues?

Sorry you're having to deal with this - but I can't contribute meaningfully to answer your query.
 

mkepke

Mark
Corporate Member
My first thought is the same as Henry’s.

That aside, I’d be loathe to do something outside the manuf install instructions - what do those allow?

My gut says look at modifying the tile-work to accommodate the tub, not vise versa.

Pictures would be helpful…

-Mark
 

CharlieGator

Charlie
Senior User
My first thought is the same as Henry’s.

That aside, I’d be loathe to do something outside the manuf install instructions - what do those allow?

My gut says look at modifying the tile-work to accommodate the tub, not vise versa.

Pictures would be helpful…

-Mark
I agree!
 

Dee2

Gene
Staff member
Corporate Member
TOH trick: why use mortar when spray foam will do? And why would you not put a sheet of plastic between the bedding material material and the tub???🤔🤔🤔
 

Westpacx3

Jim
Corporate Member
The mortar bed would be sticking to the plywood unde the tub and removing it should have no affect on the tub unless they flex the tub at the edges prying it all up.

All the mortar is supposed to do it fill thw gap between the plywood and floor so thickness is relative to that and that should be able to be determined with the tub sitting on the floor.
I assume the mortar dried before they pushed it down or it had no where to go when pressed.

I repair tubs for a living and a lot of times the bottom of the tub is not even sitting on the plywood. You can take your thumb and press and see. If the unit flexes and not the wood then I would not install this tub and get another. The factories need to glue the unit to the wood then support the wood to the floor but they dont and most tub bottoms are not perfectly flat..
 
OP
OP
Wiley's Woodworks

Wiley's Woodworks

Wiley
Corporate Member
Reply to all: Yes, ultimately at the end of all arguing and finger pointing it is the GC's responsibility to do a proper installation. He doesn't want to admit a mistake because then the tiled in enclosure would have to be torn out, which would destroy the tile and who knows what damage might get done to the floor tile at the seams, and the entire structure rebuilt and retiled. This is about 1/3 of the entire project, and we just paid $9,300 for the tile labor. That means $3,000+ for the tile reinstallation plus new tile plus demo plus rebuild of proper size tub enclosure plus likely purchase of new tub because the one in place is likely to rip apart when someone tries to remove it. Add it up and you're at $5,000-$6,000+ for a properly corrected job. The GC is not going to volunteer to spend that kind of money. That's why I'm searching for a workaround. If this doesn't get resolved next week my wife is looking at months to a year of an unfinished, partially unusable master bath. I'll do a lot of things to avoid that.

The tub is sitting on fresh mortar on top of a plywood subfloor. The tub floor does not flex. The whole tub does not budge when the plumber lifted up on the front edge as hard as he dared without the rollover lip ripping apart. Another plumber from same company said he saw mortar squeeze out under the tub. A friend who has done several remodeling installs of tubs and showers says the primary purpose of the mortar underneath is to support the bottom of the tub and stop flexing. Gluing it in place is secondary but is intentional. The bottoms of all tubs are not flat; they slant downward rear to drain at front so water will run out, i.e. the rear is higher and needs filler underneath. Can I get by with minimal grout--1/8" to no more than 1/4" thick around the drain pipe and appropriate thickness at rear of tub to support the floor?
 

Graywolf

Board of Directors, President
Richard
Staff member
Corporate Member
I personally think a thinner mortar bed would be ok, however, if the tub manufacturer requires said mortar bed then for the warranty you have to comply or you void the warranty. Now I would start there and verify that as a fact. The GC is the one who needs to step up here and if need be and I know you will hold his feet to the fire.
 

Wilsoncb

Williemakeit
Corporate Member
I think you’re fine. A few years ago my friend gave me a similar tub because he wanted only a shower. When we removed it, it was as sitting on joint compound, not mortar.
When I installed it I was unaware of the 1” requirement since I didn’t have the original installation manual. I don’t think I had 1” when I installed it in my house. It worked just fine for the 7 years I lived there. As you said the bottom of the tub is not flat, so the main purpose of the mortar is to distribute the weight evenly. The 1” requirement mostly has to do with cracking as the mortar dries over time. If you are concerned I would make a forum to contain the mortar so if it does crack it will not easily move.
 

zdorsch

Zach
Corporate Member
Completed agree the GC should fix this!

If I’m following I wonder if there is a way to fill the gap between the tile and the lip of the tub? Something like solid stone or a thin strip of tile. This way the tub doesn’t need removed, the tile bed matches instructions, and hopefully much easier than starting over.
 

John Jimenez

JJ
Corporate Member
Sorry this happened Wiley….super frustrating. Often times there are wood strips screwed to the bottom of those fiberglass soaking tubs…if that’s the case and those wood strips were imbedded in the mortar bed then getting the rub out can be a bi@#&$ to get out. When I removed ours last year, it had those strips and the entire mortar bed lifted out with the tub. Assuming you can get the tub lifted out without damaging it and you were looking to do a thinner mortar bed, you could use Henry 549 which is a flexible finishing mortar that can be spread up to 1/2” thick. Can you use some kind of trim around the tub rim to hide the fact that it’s 1/2” proud? Pictures would be helpful. Please let us know what you decide and how it goes.
 
OP
OP
Wiley's Woodworks

Wiley's Woodworks

Wiley
Corporate Member
Just about my last choice for fixing this colossal screw up is to somehow fill the 1/2" gap where the fiberglass tub sticks up above the tile work. I have not come up with any method that can be fitted under the tub (clearances are really tight on 2 ends of base), satisfies my demands for a waterproof seal, and cosmetically looks like it belongs there and is not a hillbilly rig patch job. Stacking tile on the front edge is visually repulsive. The edges of the tile are a completely different shade from the top surface.
 

blackhawk

Brad
Corporate Member
My big question is why didn't the GC pull the tub back out as soon as he saw that it was too high before the mortar had time to setup?

My ideas:
1) Schluter makes a lot of unique tile products. It would be worth checking with them to see if they might have a solution. They make high quality products. I have used several of them.
2) As a boat guy, I have dabbled with fiberglass repair. A good boat repair person could possibly fill that gap with fiberglass and then go over it with gelcoat. I'm not sure if tub manufacturers use gelcoat, but a good repair person can color match gelcoat on a boat and make it look seamless. This is risky because you will need to sand the rim of the tub to get the fiberglass and gelcoat to bond. If the patch or gelcoat method goes wrong the tub rim is toast.
3) Fill the gap with custom fit teak with a silicone bed???
 

Westpacx3

Jim
Corporate Member
My big question is why didn't the GC pull the tub back out as soon as he saw that it was too high before the mortar had time to setup?

My ideas:
1) Schluter makes a lot of unique tile products. It would be worth checking with them to see if they might have a solution. They make high quality products. I have used several of them.
2) As a boat guy, I have dabbled with fiberglass repair. A good boat repair person could possibly fill that gap with fiberglass and then go over it with gelcoat. I'm not sure if tub manufacturers use gelcoat, but a good repair person can color match gelcoat on a boat and make it look seamless. This is risky because you will need to sand the rim of the tub to get the fiberglass and gelcoat to bond. If the patch or gelcoat method goes wrong the tub rim is toast.
3) Fill the gap with custom fit teak with a silicone bed???
Option 3 here is the best of the 3.

If this is a jacuzzi brand then odds are it is acrylic and not gelcoated fg. Most any fg repair to this joint would crack in time due to expansion and contraction rates and odds are as firm as the bottom might feel, there is always movement somewhere. Whoever measured and designed the frame work this is dropped in, owns it.
 
OP
OP
Wiley's Woodworks

Wiley's Woodworks

Wiley
Corporate Member
My big question is why didn't the GC pull the tub back out as soon as he saw that it was too high before the mortar had time to setup?

My ideas:
1) Schluter makes a lot of unique tile products. It would be worth checking with them to see if they might have a solution. They make high quality products. I have used several of them.
2) As a boat guy, I have dabbled with fiberglass repair. A good boat repair person could possibly fill that gap with fiberglass and then go over it with gelcoat. I'm not sure if tub manufacturers use gelcoat, but a good repair person can color match gelcoat on a boat and make it look seamless. This is risky because you will need to sand the rim of the tub to get the fiberglass and gelcoat to bond. If the patch or gelcoat method goes wrong the tub rim is toast.
3) Fill the gap with custom fit teak with a silicone bed???
The GC wasn't around, in fact no one was around me included, when the plumber cemented the tub in place. The plumber should have test fit the tub before he laid the mortar on the subfloor. He compounded the problem, and his responsibility/liability, when he didn't pull out the tub as soon as he realized it would not seat down on the tile deck. This makes this a shared responsibility between GC who designed the enclosure and the plumber who cemented in the tub to the point it won't come out without destroying it.
 

mkepke

Mark
Corporate Member
Wiley - pictures would really help.

Does the tub have a flange? How many sides goes the "tub enclosure" have, e.g. is it the common 3-sided enclosure where the tub is pushed up against 3 walls? Does the tub have an integral skirt - or is that applied after (assuming not a 4-sided enclosure) ?

I'm thinking you really have two related problems?:
1 How to remove the existing tub such that it can be reused
2 How to set the tub at a height that works with the existing tile

As far as problem #1, can you remove the subfloor with the tub attached, e.g. cut from below? That would make it easier to separate the two later. Or make your GC eat the cost of a replacement tub, and just tear it out.

As far a problem #2 a thinner mortar bed is maybe an option per this thread, or you could redo the subfloor so it sits level with the tops of the joists. This is how curbless showers are done if you want to look that up. That would buy you ~3/4" more room.

-Mark
 

mattfrit

Matt
Senior User
We had a new tub and wall tile installed a few years ago. The tube was supposed to be a drop-in replacement for the old one, but turned out to be 2" narrower. We were not replacing the tile floor at that time. The solution was to fill in the gap between for floor tile and the tub with some decorative 1/2" tiles. We had left overs from the accent stripe in the shower wall and alcove. It looks like we planned it all along.
 

blackhawk

Brad
Corporate Member
Option 3 here is the best of the 3.

If this is a jacuzzi brand then odds are it is acrylic and not gelcoated fg. Most any fg repair to this joint would crack in time due to expansion and contraction rates and odds are as firm as the bottom might feel, there is always movement somewhere. Whoever measured and designed the frame work this is dropped in, owns it.
Jim - Not saying the fiberglass couldn't crack, but in my years of boating experience, boats see a tremendous amount of flexure without cracks. Besides just flexing in the water, I have seen some heavy hits into docks where you can see a large flex in the side of the boat during the hit without damage. A tub may be a different animal though.
 

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