anyone with experience spraying a dye?

[BSevier]

how difficult is it to spray a wb poly (general finishes) with a dye added?

i've sprayed the wb before without the dye and had good results. i'm still somewhat new to spraying so my confidence is shaky- especially when it comes to adding a color.

i had to go with the dye in order to match an existing piece. i've now got the poly mixed with the dye and have a good match. however, looking at the size of the project, i would much rather spray it than try to brush it.

add to that the project is for a friend of mine, so the pressure is on.

:help:

 

[nelsone]

The dye should not change the poly enough to be noticed. I usually spray dye with either water or DNA. Haven't had much need to mix it with the top coat, but it is very easy to use.

 

[WoodWrangler]

I haven't either, but agree with Ed's comments.

Travis should be able to provide some insight ... I'm pretty sure he uses dye often.

 

[woodguy1975]

Light coats is the key with spraying tinted top coats. If you tint too much and try to change the color too quickly you'll end up with lap marks no matter how well you spray. The key is multiple layers of light color.

It can be difficult to even spray darker shellacs and not get lap marks unless you very light 1lb or less cuts.

Tinted poly brings me back to the time I tried to use polyshades. What a nightmare that turned out to be.

 

[Travis Porter]

It is a royal PAIN to spray dye mixed in with your finish/top coat. The official/professional term for this is toning, and it works for small areas, but it is the pits for an entire project. Brushing it would be worse.

The problem is getting an even color over the entire piece. If you are doing a solid color and are not looking for any wood grain to show through (ie like paint) that will work, but if you are trying to make it look like stained wood (translucent), it gets hard, very hard. Personally, I sprayed a small table I built with the method you are suggesting and ended up giving the table away and making another one. I did the method again and my results were a little better, but still disappointing. I tried doing it on a house of cabinets that were a red mahogany color and it was just too uneven and inconsistent. I ended up sanding 4 cabinet carcasses back to bare wood because I was unhappy with the results. Even if you try practicing on scrap wood (which I did) it will look good, but when you start spraying a complex project with curves, corners, moldings, etc, it is extremely difficult to keep your color even.

My recommendation (and my current methodology) is to mix the dye with water, denatured alcohol, etc and then spray it. If you mix it with water, you will need to lightly sand with 320 or 400 grit sandpaper to knock the grain down after it dries an hour. When you do this, you will have some bare spots, but the second coat of dye will cover it up.

Applying dye is VERY forgiving, and much much easier than using stain. I have sprayed it, had runs, got a rag out and wiped them smooth and couldn't tell it. Inside corners can be tricky, but get your rag out and go to town. Don't be afraid to use a rag.

As for needle/tip sizes, you can go down a size, but I have just adjustmed my gun to spray a fine coat.

I am not a professional sprayer/finisher, and I have been spraying for about 2 years. I just found that trying to mix the dye with the finish to achieve Minwax stain like results just would not work for me.

 

[stave]

I agree with the above comments. It is hard on a flat surface to get a blotch free or even color...add corners etc. and it gets really tough.
A combination approach is best using the dye with water (easier to use and manipulate than alcohol) and the toner (finish with dye). It will take a concentrated effort even this way.
Attention to spray speed, gun distance and overlap become crucial. Planning the best way to spray without buildup and minimal overlap before starting helps a great deal.
And above all...light coats, go slow with the build and correcting things will be easier. Good luck.

Stave

 

[BSevier]

i went this direction because it was the recommended way to use Transtint by Fine Woodworking issue #190. according to them, the least recommended way was to mix it directly with either water or alcohol. the most recommended was to use it to tint a clear finish. it also mentions using it in this manner on Transtint's website.

but what im seeing here is the opposite. so now im really confused!:dontknow:

 

[nelsone]

This entire unit was sprayed with med. brown Transtint mixed with distilled water and then topped with General Finishes poly. You can see that it worked quit well and shows the grain pattern nicely.

 

[Travis Porter]

I don't remember the issue of FWW you reference, all I can tell you is first hand experience. I will try to pull the issue out tonight.

I mixed Transtint with Target USL in my attempts. Water based poly would be almost the same. I find it hard to believe the recommended method was mixed in with the finish. The reason I say this is because it was hard to keep even color/tone (at least for me). The easiest way would be Transtint mixed with DNA. No raised grain that way. Thing is though, if you first coat with WB poly or lacquer without shellac you are going to raise the grain anyway and risk cutting through the finish on outside corners and such.

My suggestion is to try it on a fairly large piece of say cheap plywood with a corner on it (say a face frame). See if you can get the color even. For me, it was VERY hard, hence why I removed it and did it with Transtint thinned with water.

I do like the transtint liquid dyes, but I am going to try UTC's from Michael's and mixing my own up. For the house of cabinets I did I have used almost $400 in dyes alone and that is just too much money for what you get in my opinion.

 

[Ken Massingale]

I use Hydrocote Satin Resisthane Plus from Highland along with the amber additive. I use the HF HVLP sprayer and get great results, and I make no claims to be an expert sprayer. The Resisthane is darn near fool proof.
I haven't seen any difference in spraying with or without the coloring additive.

 

[nelsone]

Per the Homestead Finishing web site:

"TransTint Dyes can be added to some oil-based products.The dye can be added directly to linseed or pure tung oil. To add to oil based varnishes mix 1 part dye with 4 parts acetone before adding to the finish.Do not exceed 2 oz. of this mixture per quart.Shake solution thoroughly before applying to wood.TransTints cannot be added to most of the “Danish” oils or finishes thinned with a high ratio of mineral spirits."

There's a lot of good information on Jeff's site that would be worth the read.

 

[BSevier]

I appreciate everyone's input on the matter. It's tough thinking that I have basically wasted a quart of WB poly and half of my dye.:gar-Cr

I'll just have to print some more money.

Maybe I will save it and use it on something I make for myself that I can experiment with.

 

[jeff...]

anyone with experience spraying a dye? Yep I do. John hit the nail on the head. Very light coats - if you think it's too heavy it is. You want to change the color just a wee little bit each coat so few drops of dye goes a long way. watch out of what john calls "lap marks" and you may need to spot spray some areas to archive a consistent color. There is nothing better than toning to archive consistent color that everyone looks to stains to try and achieve.

 

[merrill77]

anyone with experience spraying a dye? Yep I do. John hit the nail on the head. Very light coats - if you think it's too heavy it is. You want to change the color just a wee little bit each coat so few drops of dye goes a long way. watch out of what john calls "lap marks" and you may need to spot spray some areas to archive a consistent color. There is nothing better than toning to archive consistent color that everyone looks to stains to try and achieve.

Now you guys tell me!

I generally prefer dye to stain, especially on large-pored wood species. I prefer alcohol to water for the dye application, since it removes one sanding step. On the mirror I posted a few days ago, I found that my dye-in-alcohol was not going into the red oak evenly. That surprised me, since in previous use it has generally be more even than stain. So I decided to try the dye in my shellac as a toner. On my test pieces, it looked great. But on a larger piece, the quick-drying shellac was very tough to get an even coat. I normally find shellac to be pretty idiot proof....but I've discovered a better idiot! Guess I won't try that again - or I'll make the color _much_ lighter and do multiple coats.

Chris