Any thoughts on this dust collector?

[SabertoothBunny]

Saw this new dust collection system on Kickstarter and am intrigued. BUT, I do not know enough about the engineering and theory behind all this. Below is a link to the Kickstarter dust collection system and would like everyone's thoughts on this system as to whether it would be good or not. To me it seems like it only is good for only dust but and am not sure.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/anydust/anydust-clog-free-powerful-suction-wood-dust-collector?ref=ksr_email_mktg_auto_user_watched_project_launched

 

[Echd]

Space age dust collector is kind of a cool niche but i'm not sure I'd jump at an unknown and unproven design when that price range can get you one of the Harvey units, or possibly an oneida. That said I feel like these units in that price range do have a big problem- the 3 hp motor is not big enough for a large shop serving several machines at once, but small shops and hobbyists may not want to dedicate that much space or money to it. Too much for one but larger shops will be gunning for 5 or 10 or more HP units. And i'm just not sure I buy that there will be substantial improvement in suction based solely on a design change when traditional cyclones are reasonably efficient and inexpensive as is.

Kickstarters can be dicey, too. Lots of Chinese companies essentially use them for pre-orders, and if the product resulting from it sucks, they really don't have any obligation to service it.

I do, however, like that the inlet is on top. I don't understand why harvey designed their unit with it coming out the side. I might have bought one of theirs if it had been a top intake model, where instead the side intake just eats up space.

I ended up with a "normal" DC mounted on the wall with a cyclone dropping into a waste barrel that I forget to check regularly and flood my fines container and filter cartridge with wood shavings resulting in me swearing like a sailor as I clean everything out for the five hundredth time- like god intended. I'm not going to say I wouldn't consider changing it at some point, but i'm not sure what a change would realistically get me as an end user when I already have efficient filtration and as good an amount of suction as I can expect for the motor I use.

I suspect true improvements in dust collecting at woodworking at this point should begin at the machine side of things nowadays- otherwise all the DC can do is increase flow or intensity. And that begs if most people even care about greater levels of collection- personally, I really don't. Those more sensitive to it or who woodwork in different environments may.

 

[Wilsoncb]

Looks interesting, good to see someone is trying to solve some problems and make improvements.

 

[Mark Fogleman]

3hp and a large enough diameter fan to generate flow against filter and multiple cyclone resistance. All the small cyclones are a concern for clogging, just like on the Harvey.

 

[Wiley's Woodworks]

C--No idea what size your waste barrel is, but let's assume it's a standard size. Top of the line dust collectors have indicators that let you know when the waste collector is approaching full. Surely this warning feature is available as an aftermarket accessory, even if it's part of the barrel. Red light starts flashing, no more cussing like a sailor.

 

[Echd]

I'm sure there is an aftermarket solution somewhere. Or I could just attach some plexi to a hole in the top and pay attention once in while.

Mostly I just overflow it when i'm on a planing misadventure.

 

[Michael Mathews]

$2200 for the smallest unit seems pretty steep to me. And like @Echd said, for an untested and unproven design, I think I'd spend less money on a proven system!

 

[JNCarr]

After a fair bit of study of both the Shepherd and Lapple method and Texas A&M method of cyclone design, I think their basic concept is really quite sound. In a nutshell, the length to diameter ratio (L/D) is important in capturing particles of health concern. The issue with conventional cyclones that need to move a lot of air through them, is how big these things can get. By breaking the cyclones into many smaller diameter cyclones in parallel, they can increase the L/D ratio while maintaining high throughput without the machine becoming extremely long/tall. This is a creative solution.
Having said that, the distribution of airflow into many cyclones will likely create turbulence and reduces efficiency. I'm not sure by how much without a deeper dive. It also increases manufacturing costs by a lot. Finally, they need a pre-separator to get rid of chunks large enough to clog the tiny cyclones they have. This too adds to cost.
Finally, all the LEDs, fancy housing, web-based control adds to cost but in reality, adds nothing to the task of removing harmful particles (I've never had the urge to turn on my DC when visiting my daughter in CA). How much do you want to pay for "cool"?

My .0000000177 bitcoin (as of 8/28)

 

[Echd]

After a fair bit of study of both the Shepherd and Lapple method and Texas A&M method of cyclone design, I think their basic concept is really quite sound. In a nutshell, the length to diameter ratio (L/D) is important in capturing particles of health concern. The issue with conventional cyclones that need to move a lot of air through them, is how big these things can get. By breaking the cyclones into many smaller diameter cyclones in parallel, they can increase the L/D ratio while maintaining high throughput without the machine becoming extremely long/tall. This is a creative solution.
Having said that, the distribution of airflow into many cyclones will likely create turbulence and reduces efficiency. I'm not sure by how much without a deeper dive. It also increases manufacturing costs by a lot. Finally, they need a pre-separator to get rid of chunks large enough to clog the tiny cyclones they have. This too adds to cost.
Finally, all the LEDs, fancy housing, web-based control adds to cost but in reality, adds nothing to the task of removing harmful particles (I've never had the urge to turn on my DC when visiting my daughter in CA). How much do you want to pay for "cool"?

My .0000000177 bitcoin (as of 8/28)

I think that long circular spinning part is their pre-separator. In the video it shows there is a conventional impeller inside the unit near the top. I'm kind of having a hard time grasping how the intake is coming in through the top, going through that pre separator, then back through the forest of miniature cyclones.

 

[JNCarr]

I think that long circular spinning part is their pre-separator. In the video it shows there is a conventional impeller inside the unit near the top. I'm kind of having a hard time grasping how the intake is coming in through the top, going through that pre separator, then back through the forest of miniature cyclones.

Exactly that's the pre-separator. Agreed, there seems to be a pretty convoluted path - which means pressure drop = reduced efficiency.

 

[mpeele]

I like shinny new things and this certainly is one.

After looking at their spill it looks like the only thing they have going for them is noise level ( 65 dB when its running at 5200 rpm) and possible size. Noise level is important but whats the frequency spectrum. High frequency noise is less tolerable than low frequency noise. 65 dB is like a room full of people talking trying to talk over everyone else. The collector makes noise but the intakes on tools also contribute to the noise level. The higher the vacuum at collection the higher the noise.

They say "no expensive filters to replace" and then they show a guy replacing filters. So whats the story on the no filter filter.

Kickstarter price is $2199 with a grayed out price of $4900. Or $2899 with a grayed out price of $5500 including all add-ons (no-filter exhaust, ground cleaner, 2x spare filter, and 400x dust bin bags).

So if you're willing to pay $700 more they will throw in a no-filter exhaust so you can vent it outside and 2 filters you don't need. So do you have 4 filters you don't need.

If I was looking for a dust collector I think I would look elsewhere. Unless I was just attracted to shinny new things which sometimes I am.

 

[SteveHall]

The FAQ specifies

• 3,060 CFM at 18.1" water column
• reusable polyester filter cleaning every 9–12 months by tapping or water wash
• 40-gallon steel drum debris capacity

Quite impressive. (EDIT: If true. These numbers nearly exceed physics and surpass any known unit on the market by multiple times, so I thought it was obvious the specs seem like great marketing at best, but it's worth saying for anyone unfamiliar with dust collection basics.)

But in my mind, the toughest part any product is sales and support, which only gets more complex as the size increases and/or becomes more sophisticated, think automobiles or smart phones. If they could somehow find a way to sell 1000x more of them...

...I wonder if something like this could scale for building air cleaning? Indoor air quality (IAQ) is an issue finally beginning to gain market awareness, and although this is the wrong technology for volatile organic compounds, CO2, and formaldehyde, at least particulate pollution is becoming a common building health measure. (I just bought several IAQ monitors for three separate family member living places with some interesting discoveries.)

 

[chris_goris]

3060 CFM , there MUST be filters that need replacing if youre dumping that air back to atmosphere. While they may remove fine particulates through cyclonic action, it still has to be filtered before venting, no cyclone can catch it all.

 

[Echd]

Honestly, those specs are so absurdly high as to be unbelievable.

The harvey industrial size dust collector specs to 1400 cfm and 19.25 of water column lift... with a 3 phase four horse motor.

Oneida's 3HP cyclone unit on a 220 3hp motor specs 1030 cfm at 2 inches of lift.

 

[Mark Fogleman]

Honestly, those specs are so absurdly high as to be unbelievable.

The harvey industrial size dust collector specs to 1400 cfm and 19.25 of water column lift... with a 3 phase four horse motor.

Oneida's 3HP cyclone unit on a 220 3hp motor specs 1030 cfm at 2 inches of lift.

You also have to look at the design and size of the fan.

 

[SteveHall]

Honestly, those specs are so absurdly high as to be unbelievable.

That was my take. Sorry my comment didn't clarify my skepticism, which I've edited just in case my sarcasm didn't convey.

 

[Echd]

You also have to look at the design and size of the fan.

Yes, but it doesn't appear to have a larger impeller than the others. Given the dimensions it may be smaller. We can't really see it, though, just the bits in the renderings.

I can accept a superior design may exist, but suggesting 3x the throughput of the current most popular and common design (the oneida, which is pretty much the typical DC) beggars disbelief. The simplicity of the Oneida style units means they should be about as efficient as one can be given adequate airflow.

That was my take. Sorry my comment didn't clarify my skepticism, which I've edited just in case my sarcasm didn't convey.

Yes, I assumed that was your take. My post was more for a comparative take on other highly regarded models on the market.

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

Does it dispense chilled soft drinks in cans?

Where to start? So many things wrong as many have already mentioned. It looks like a Frankencollector- a combination of a Harvey, a super Dyson, etc. If one gee whiz feature will fool some potential customers, lets add a bunch of different ones. So what is up with that pre-separator? Is it driven by a separate motor or does it just rotate by design (a crazy caged fan) due to airflow, and what is the physics? How does that pre-separate large from fine dust? It sure looks neat with special internal lighting, but I'm sure it really robs CFM. What about those tiny twin final flters?- no way they have enough filter area to allow over 1000 CFM and still catch fine, sub-micron, dust. For that you need over 300 sq ft of filter, something like one or two large Wynn Environmental cartridge filters. Remember, a Dyson, which also has mutiple tiny cyclones (they call "root" cyclones), operates at very high SP and relatively low CFM (like most vacs) which is Ok for collecting dust from the floor when the pickup is just 1/2" or less away, but not what you need to collect chips and fine airborne dust that might escape into the area around the machine. Speaking of specs, over 1000 cfm "when integrated"- integrated into what?, many feet of shop duct work, including wyes and multiple drops, or 3' of 6" duct connected to one machine at a time?

Another example of hype- the Dyson's Blade-less fan. Duh, it has a fan with blades- they are just hidden in the base.